[00:00:00] Tom: Why is it that jewelry stores in the United States or elsewhere don’t sell a high karat gold product?
[00:00:07] If you have 23 karat gold in a jewelry store, everyone would gravitate toward that. And it would make all of the 14 karat and 18 karat look pale in comparison.
[00:00:20] Scott: All right, so today I am here speaking with Tom Pryor. He’s the co-founder of Baht Gold, and that can be found on the website 23kgold.com. Is that right, Tom?
[00:00:33] Tom: That’s correct.
[00:00:34] Scott: Perfect. Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
[00:00:36] Tom: You’re very welcome. Thanks for asking.
[00:00:38] Scott: Yeah, for sure. So that brings up why I asked Tom on the channel.
[00:00:42] I decided to make a video on gold and just to educate people like my friends and family about how to buy gold in Thailand.
[00:00:49] But I realized I’m a bit out of my league. On this because as much as I’ve bought some gold, I’m not a gold expert. I’m not a Thai gold expert. So I thought it would make sense to have Tom on and we can kind of hear it from the expert, right?
[00:01:02] So, let’s jump into this with learning a little bit more about you, Tom. So first, how long have you actually been in Thailand?
[00:01:09] Tom: I’ve been in Thailand 16 years. I was married in 2020 with my wife, Thai woman. And, we decided that we would move here, actually. We’re going to move here for a very short time. Yeah. And it turned into 16 years, so there must be something good about Thailand, right?
[00:01:26] Scott: One year, two years, six months, always ends up turning into over 10 at a minimum, right? what about your exposure to Thai gold or gold in general?
[00:01:35] Tom: That does state back a long time. First of all, I just wanted to mention that I’m from, Glens Falls, New York, which is a small town in upstate New York. And, and I went into the military, during the Vietnam era.
[00:01:49] And I was stationed in Korea, though I wasn’t in Vietnam at the time, in 74. And, I was in a signal unit. I was in the signal core and we, provided communications for several different units, one being aviation. And so, it was very exciting, very interesting.
[00:02:10] We would always be ahead of everybody because we had to set up our equipment and everything. We had generator sets with us. And, and it was pretty, plush. I mean, once we got set up, we, we had, you know, hot water, we had, you know, electricity that we could plug into. And these Cobra pilots got wind of that.
[00:02:30] And they would land their, their cobras or Hueys, some of them were, were warrant officers that landed those aircraft. And they would always immediately come over to us so they could have hot coffee or in the morning so they could use their electric shavers. So during the course of a few days in 74, I noticed that all of them had gold chains.
[00:02:54] And, and so I asked them about that. And really, it’s a quite interest, interesting story because the, military would issue pilots, barter kits.
[00:03:03] Scott: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:04] Tom: Barter kits contained like 18 karat gold coins or something of value. So if they did get shot down, they would have something that they could negotiate with the Vietnamese to get themselves out of that predicament.
[00:03:18] Scott: but the government of course is a little bit cheap when it comes to things like, here’s a 14 karat gold watch band to use, but these guys are smart.
[00:03:27] Tom: So they would buy local things that are considered locally valuable.
[00:03:32] Scott: Yes.
[00:03:32] Tom: And the baht chain was what they chose because it’s high karat gold.
[00:03:36] Scott: Yes.
[00:03:36] Tom: So that’s how I first learned about it. And then many years went by and I find myself in Thailand and here these beautiful gold shops just loaded down, brimming with gold. And that’s how I started to learn about it.
[00:03:53] Scott: Wow.
[00:03:54] Tom: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:54] Scott: Well, so the gold that you were exposed to then, was it again this 96.5%, 23 karat gold?
[00:04:00] Or was it 25 years?
[00:04:01] Tom: Yes.
[00:04:01] Scott: Okay, got it.
[00:04:02] Tom: Yes.
[00:04:02] Scott: So it’s that yellowish color gold, right?
[00:04:04] Tom: Yes.
[00:04:06] Scott: Yeah. And then what about the chain? the, aviator chain. So was that the typical chains that they were wearing, aviator chains?
[00:04:12] Tom: Yes. Back then, that was the common, and even to this day. The younger guys that are flying these, very high technology aircraft are wearing the bar link aviator style chain. Yes. It’s amazing. And when I’ve met them at Elmendorf, air Force Base in Alaska. They would tell me that, their grandfathers handed it down to them.
[00:04:35] Scott: Yes.
[00:04:35] Tom: And one of them said to me, it’s a legend man, you know, it is pretty cool.
[00:04:40] Scott: So very cool. So that’s your background. Now fast forward a bit, you eventually started Baht Gold, the company. So can you explain a little bit more about what you do and what you provide through your company?
[00:04:50] Tom: Well, I did gather some knowledge about the gold business in the late 1990s when I visited Thailand, and I always thought that if Americans were more familiar with high karat gold, that they would certainly prefer that over the normal 14 karat. Especially when you look at the price difference, it’s not all that significant. And so I really thought there might be some type of a, an arbitrage opportunity in that or something that I could do. And then I just put it on a back burner. And my wife and I lived in, Arizona for four years before returning to Thailand. We were in country a couple of years when we had a large flood. It was called the Great Floods of Thailand, 2013, I believe. Yeah. And, we live in a two story building and we were we were flooded, I think it was about one meter of water in the first floor. So we were fortunate because we had a, a second floor, but we live in an area that’s rather poor. And a lot of the people have only like shanties. Yeah. And they lost everything, or they moved out early and carried what they could.
[00:06:04] And one thing that we noticed was that, they would take as many belongings as they could, but they would leave their pets, their animals behind.
[00:06:13] Scott: Yes.
[00:06:14] Tom: The animals eventually found their way to higher ground, which was on rooftops of factories or other houses.
[00:06:22] But we knew that their life expectancy was going to be short because they were without water or food. So we put together a program, mainly my wife was, it was her idea to put together a program. And, we used the row boat to go out and feed and water these animals.
[00:06:38] But we wanted to do what we could for the animals because we couldn’t just watch them pass away.
[00:06:44] Yeah. While it was very effective, what we did we were able to provide nutrition and watering, and, and after about a month, of course, there were some that didn’t make it, but we continued to take care of the ones that did make it. Because some of the animals were really desperate, but we found in a very short time that the right nutrition for the animals really brought them back to health.
[00:07:09] With the right imported foods and the, and the required treatments and things for them was very expensive. So I needed to really figure out a way that I could bring in enough money to be able to support this. Because we, we really enjoyed it and we really wanted to see these animals survive.
[00:07:28] And we wanted to do something that was more permanent.
[00:07:31] So I used my experience and more importantly, my contacts that I had made years ago in the business to, to be able to get into selling gold on a retail basis online. And so I was the first website to sell gold beginning in, actually in 2009 what was it, 2016 is we, when we incorporated Thai Baht Gold Jewelry, LTD. but in 20 13 is when we really put the push in to try to come up with, a business plan that would help supplement, this, cat and dog shelter.
[00:08:14] Scott: Got it. So the mo I understand now the motivation behind starting the business.
[00:08:18] And so I understand you had the knowledge in gold and it was something that sounds like it was on the back burner for a while. And then now you had this inspiration to say, this is the time to do it, because this will allow us to fund saving these animals.
[00:08:31] Tom: That’s right. That’s right.
[00:08:33] Scott: So that’s really important. so when, so do people know if they buy gold from you, it’s not going to, extravagant things. it’s, it’s going to kind of helping animals, right?
[00:08:42] Tom: That’s correct, yeah.
[00:08:43] And I would never have been able to do that unless I had some form of income coming in other than what the money that we had in the bank, you know? Yeah.
[00:08:51] Scott: Well, I really, I really like that because I think, of course, people can donate to animal shelters and things like this, which I think is great, but the way I look at it as you’ve structured this to where it’s a win-win, because if individuals are interested in gold, wanna buy gold, wanna buy Thai gold, which is really a beautiful yellow color that I really enjoy myself then they know at least that it’s going to a good cause as well, right?
[00:09:13] So it’s, it’s a win-win there, in my book.
[00:09:15] Now I wanna get a little bit more into some of the questions that people had about gold, including myself. So we talked briefly on the fact that Thai gold seems to have this distinctive yellow color. So can you explain a little bit more about the purity of Thai gold and maybe the options of purity that are available here in Thailand for gold?
[00:09:34] Tom: Sure. Thai gold is, when you purchase it in a gold shop, the purity is 96.5%. The, alloys that are used are usually silver and copper. And, it’s also available in 24 karat. And of course Thailand is a hub for jewelry production. So, for wholesaling you can get 14 karat, 18 karat, whatever you want, you know, made in a, in a factory.
[00:10:01] But the Thai people generally purchase 96.5% gold. They consider 24 karat as ceremonial type of jewelry. So that’s why there are only a couple of shops that I know of that sell it.
[00:10:15] Scott: Got it. So the most common one, when you’re walking down the street in Bangkok or around Thailand, you see these gold shops on the corner.
[00:10:21] Chances are they’re gonna be selling primarily the 96.5%. Yes. 23 karat, right?
[00:10:25] Tom: Yes.
[00:10:26] Scott: Got it. And then what about for people that aren’t familiar with this 23 karat? Is it soft? Is it safe to wear? Is it gonna bend, I mean, or are there any advantages to the 23 karat purity?
[00:10:38] Tom: Well, if you talk to any Cobra pilot, they will probably tell you that it’s very durable.
[00:10:43] Because a lot of them still have it after 40 years, 40 or 50 years, right? They still have that chain. But really technically there is a certain eeling process that happens to the gold when it’s heated and pounded and cooled. And this toughens it up. And with the right goldsmith you can make something that’s very durable and very hard, even though it’s high karat and the, and that’s true with 24 karat too.
[00:11:09] Yeah. But if it’s a very ornate piece and the pieces are just soldered on, then it’s very soft. And it, and it can just flatten out. So you, you want to avoid that. But with a regular bar link chain or a Rolo link or any of the solid core chains it will last, last many lifetimes. It might take on scratches, but it will create a patina.
[00:11:32] And it will still be beautiful.
[00:11:34] Scott: No, absolutely.
[00:11:36] Tom: it’s impervious to anything. It’s gold, it’s impervious to salt water or any chemicals or anything like that. It’s hypoallergenic. You know, so.
[00:11:46] Scott: Yeah. And you also pointed out, I guess the thickness there, the weight of it, I guess, would relate to that as well.
[00:11:51] So if you got a very thin, 23 karat gold chain. Like I, I suppose you’d wanna make sure it’s thick enough that That’s right. It can be strong, right?
[00:12:00] Tom: That’s right. Because it, it either purities, if it’s a half baht chain or even a one baht chain it isn’t as durable as something that is two baht.
[00:12:10] Scott: Right.
[00:12:10] Tom: And, for many years I never sold a one baht chain. I always started it at two, right? Because two baht or 30.4 grams, it highlights the, workmanship in the piece. It’s more durable. It, is just all around better investment really. The one baht chains, the, I never really would see many in the gold shops that I liked that much because it, they just were quite small and, so I just sold two.
[00:12:42] But then as the price of gold went up higher. I looked harder for those chains that were one baht so I could make a sale.
[00:12:50] Scott: Right, right, right, right.
[00:12:51] Tom: You know, so I would, I would only choose st chains that were solid core.
[00:12:55] Scott: Mm.
[00:12:55] Tom: Even now, I, I would say 90% of the chains that I do sell are solid core chains. Because those are the most durable.
[00:13:03] Scott: Got it. Yeah. So solid core chains, enough weight that they’re not going to run into any issues. And to your point, I get that de how much you can actually afford it changes as the price continues to go up. But I had a similar experience to where I think maybe the first thing I bought might have been one baht when I just didn’t understand much about it.
[00:13:21] But then of course, we traded up and I think just about everything we have now is, is too bad or above. So if you can afford it, it’s not just an upsell, it’s that it actually is probably better off if you can afford it. Right. Going with two baht or above.
[00:13:32] Tom: Now if you’re in Bangkok and you, you look at the cost of these chains now you know, you’re really, everyone is limited with a budget.
[00:13:41] Scott: Yeah.
[00:13:42] Tom: But I also sell in half baht increments. So even a half baht is, is an improvement. And, but most people when they purchase a two baht chain and they go back home and, they’ll say, oh, I wish I had just gotten a three baht. A three baht would’ve been just perfect.
[00:13:57] Everyone wants to upgrade to a slightly heavier chain.
[00:14:00] Scott: Yeah. And I think I see a lot of Thai people doing those upgrades as well. Right. As you get wealthier, as you save more whatever, you might just be incrementally increasing and trading in your gold, which is common enough here too.
[00:14:10] Well see,
[00:14:10] Tom: with the Thai people, it’s very important that the chain looks substantial because, you know, this, this is part of the prestige of owning gold. And now there’s a, it’s kind of like a double edged sword on that because for example, now, because the price of gold is so high. When you go into a gold shop, 80% of the gold is what’s called puff.
[00:14:33] Puff is hollow. It’s a electro forming technique. You can make gold jewelry that’s just paper thin. Ah. And the first thing you’ll notice with puff gold or hollow core gold is that it’s very light. It feels like a feather. I thought gold was supposed to be heavy, you know? Right. And, and it’s not durable.
[00:14:55] It will dent. It’ll, it will break. But the, on the positive side, it looks big. It looks like it’s a five baht, but it’s only a two baht. Right, right. You see?
[00:15:05] Scott: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. It’s kind of, I guess you can imagine a, a real Rolex versus a fake Rolex. It’s that it might look good, but it’s not the same thing.
[00:15:13] Tom: That’s right.
[00:15:13] Scott: Yeah. Now another question I got a lot was some people had fear of purchasing gold in Thailand and they would say, oh no, it’s only fake gold there. You have to be careful get gold from a trusted place like Switzerland or this or that. Right. And I think that brings to the question of where does Thai gold actually come from?
[00:15:30] Tom: Most of the Thai gold that’s used in jewelry comes from Thailand, and it’s not from a mine. It’s from people turning in their gold. So there’s this constant change of people selling gold and buying gold. And if it wasn’t for that more jewelry, more gold would have to come from Switzerland, which is where a lot of the gold does come from.
[00:15:52] There is actually a gold mine in Thailand, but it doesn’t produce enough gold to provide the necessary amount for the gold jewelry industry. So really most of the gold, is just recycled.
[00:16:07] Scott: So it’s melted down occasionally, I guess.
[00:16:09] Tom: Yeah.
[00:16:09] Scott: Okay. Got it. But that’s still, the origin is very interesting ’cause I wasn’t aware that it was initially imported.
[00:16:15] And then to your point, it’s kind of a circular economy of the gold is very liquid here. And so if people are buying and selling, you don’t necessarily need to import a huge amount frequently. But originally it was likely imported, correct?
[00:16:27] Tom: Yes. Originally, more would’ve been imported. But, you know, keep in mind that this originated from China.
[00:16:34] So there are other countries that have huge gold deposits. and so we don’t really know where it originated from, but the, the shops, owners are from China. And they’re just basically sourcing the necessary amount of gold that they need to do business.
[00:16:51] Scott: Got it. Well, I think it’s worth touching on the baht weight system as well here because you mentioned, and we were discussing maybe going with two baht and above in weight.
[00:17:01] Can you maybe expand on that and say how that weight system works?
[00:17:06] so people can better understand it if they were to walk into a gold shop today?
[00:17:09] Tom: as far as the weight system, everything is in baht. One baht in the gold shops usually, they don’t have it broken down to half bahts. But if you have a commissioned goldsmith, you can do whatever you want.
[00:17:22] Which I do, and that’s how I’m able to get the one and a half baht, or the two and a half baht but in a gold shop. I, I’d like to give an example of what the procedure would be when you walk in.
[00:17:33] Scott: Yes, please.
[00:17:34] Tom: You know to, for the optimum experience.
[00:17:38] Scott: Yeah.
[00:17:38] Tom: When you go in keep in mind that the staff at the Gold Shop would prefer that you not to see you.
[00:17:46] Okay. Because they don’t really sell to foreigners, and they look at you and you’re a tourist in their eyes. That means they’re gonna have to speak some English or they’re gonna have to call in one of their children to speak English with you. And the whole process is inconvenient for them when they can be just selling it to a Thai person.
[00:18:06] And a Thai person knows exactly what they want. They’re not picky, right? So the foreigner comes in and he has to try to figure out what he wants if he only knows the number system. Neung, song, sam, see, haa.
[00:18:22] And he can point at the design he wants. That, believe it or not, I know that sounds very simple, but it’s effective. Instead of trying to learn a lot of the language, as far as what it, what to say, of course, always be polite and smile a lot, and then they’ll help you more. But it’s an inconvenience for them.
[00:18:41] This is not an export item. This is something that is made for local consumption. I’ve tried to turn it into an export item because there are different levels of gold quality, and when I first looked at gold, it was not an export item. There were too many little imperfections and things. And the westerners are very they’re very picky about, they want it to be pristine, but they also want it to be handmade and they want it to be, lower in price.
[00:19:11] So these things are, are kind of hard to really accomplish. But when the person goes in, if they were to have an idea of what their budget is and how much they can afford, then they can say, say song baht. And point, and then you’ll get through that.
[00:19:30] Scott: Got it. No, that’s a great tip. I mean, I, I think it’s really good to have that perspective.
[00:19:35] It’s very easy for us to have the perspective of I’m the customer. And especially in the Western world, we’re very used to that. It’s like, Hey, like I’m the one here ready to buy something. But I like always putting it back in their perspective of the Gold Shop owner or the people that are just working there, they’re usually dealing in very high volume.
[00:19:49] They have people coming in and out, and they probably don’t want a lot of tire kickers. That are just, maybe this, maybe that. I don’t know what this is. I don’t know what that is.
[00:19:57] Tom: Well, worse than that, what, what will happen is. The, and this is firsthand experience. Yeah. Bringing some people to the gold shops.
[00:20:03] They think that the mirrors that are on the walls are for them to put the chain on and look at themselves. And those are security mirrors. You know, so everything is so different than what their experiences in the United States or in Europe, that it’s hard for them to adapt to that. And yeah, they, the sales staff is paid by the weight of the gold that they sell.
[00:20:26] Yeah. And that’s it. So if you’re the un, if you’re the salesperson and you’re up next and in comes the guy from New York, it’s just really probably not gonna be very profitable for her for the entire time that she’s speaking with him.
[00:20:42] Scott: Yeah. That’s why they might have that look of a little bit of frustration.
[00:20:46] Oh yeah. Like, right, because it’s not, it’s not a jewelry shop in the way that we might think of it. And let’s say the US for example.
[00:20:53] Tom: And I might add that. In the beginning what was really confusing for me was I would get waived off at a lot of shops that I would go to. Like, no. And sometimes it, it was quite rude, you know, like, on your way, that kind of thing.
[00:21:07] And I could never figure it out. And it was because they were wholesale shops. Ah, and the minimum order was 1 million baht. Ah, okay. Okay. And I’m just a tourist, right? Yeah. But no, I’m not, i’ve just spent 10 million baht across the street, because I have a wholesale business.
[00:21:23] Scott: They don’t know.
[00:21:24] Tom: But they don’t know.
[00:21:25] And they only look at it like we don’t wanna deal with it having to speak English and they just wave you off and you, you just can’t go in.
[00:21:35] Scott: Got it. So that building those relationships with the Goldsmiths and the wholesalers and stuff here is very important. And you’ve probably, I know I don’t go off the street and try to find those type of deals.
[00:21:43] I mean, I bought gold here, but it’s been at a shop and I of course go with my wife or my family or my friends, individuals that can help me a little bit with the Thai language. ’cause my language ability is not fluent. And so it’s helpful because then they don’t leave me away. Right.
[00:21:59] Tom: Yeah.
[00:21:59] Scott: They, they, they might trust me a little bit more.
[00:22:01] Tom: See if they hear a little bit of Thai. Yeah. They appreciate that. And they think that you’ve been here a while. That you didn’t just arrive. Yeah. You know, and that’s what they’re looking for.
[00:22:09] Scott: Which is good advice to anyone. definitely learn some words in Thai. Definitely be polite, over polite.
[00:22:15] End with the krap, like at the end of everything, like go overboard because the default is gonna be to not necessarily know who you are and assume you’re a tourist. Right. Right. So, totally fair. Now,
[00:22:26] If you are to go into a reputable shop here in Thailand, are you fearful that you will get a bad price and that you will get scammed?
[00:22:34] Tom: No.
[00:22:35] Scott: Why not?
[00:22:36] Tom: because it comes down to a, it’s a generational business for the family, and they would never take a chance of losing face or for the trust to be diminished in any way.
[00:22:52] Because it means everything to It’s what their great, great grandfather built. So to cheat someone. And be labeled as not to be trusted would end their business.
[00:23:04] Scott: Yes. And then it’s also pretty highly regulated here as well. Right. So the pricing structure here and the prices you see on the windows there are consistent across shops.
[00:23:15] Is that correct?
[00:23:15] Tom: Yeah. the Thai Goldsmiths Association, regulates the price. Thailand does not have its own gold market.
[00:23:22] But for example, yesterday, I think the price of gold on my app changed 24 times.
[00:23:29] As far as the, going into a shop and being taken advantage of or overpaying for something. The overpayment part might happen, but let’s face it, it would only be like to you and I, it would be like the most three or $4 that you might overpay, that you could have saved maybe someplace else.
[00:23:48] So it’s really not, not a big deal.
[00:23:50] Scott: Okay. So let’s use a simple example of let’s say that we wanted a two baht gold chain. Okay? And let’s pretend that the price today was 50,000 baht per one baht weight. So let’s assume that I’m gonna pay about a hundred thousand baht for this two baht gold weight. You bring up the point of this additional fee that you’d be charged.
[00:24:13]
[00:24:13] Tom: The labor, or some people call it the maker’s fee.
[00:24:17] Scott: Okay, so the maker’s fee is that the charge that someone might be charged a little bit extra for at the shop?
[00:24:25] So I’m not gonna pay a hundred thousand bought on the dot when I purchase that gold chain.
[00:24:29] Tom: That’s right.
[00:24:30] Scott: I pay the maker’s fee on top.
[00:24:32] Tom: That’s right. And that isn’t a negotiable amount.
[00:24:35] Scott: Okay.
[00:24:36] Tom: Okay. It’s not worth negotiating it because the most that they’re going to reduce it is like a hundred baht. Okay. And in your comments on one of the videos that you did on Thai Gold, a person mentioned that there is no vat on gold jewelry in Thailand. Mm-hmm. Well, there’s VA on all gold jewelry in Thailand when purchased. It’s just that in some shops they include it in the price of the maker’s charge.
[00:25:00] Scott: Ah.
[00:25:01] Tom: And in others it’s separate, but it’s technically the, the vat on it is a very complicated formula for them to figure out because it changes when the gold price changes.
[00:25:12] So it’s hard for them to keep up with it. So they’ll come up with a fixed amount and they just add it to the labor.
[00:25:18] Scott: Okay.
[00:25:18] Tom: But you wouldn’t know, I know I pay that on everything that I purchase.
[00:25:24] Scott: Good point. Good point. So you have to account for VAT whether it’s built in, whether it’s a separate line item, whatever. It’s very little though, but it’s gonna be small.
[00:25:30] Tom: Now, if you were to purchase this chain at a, at like, a mall, a shopping mall, it’s very possible that they would charge you the regular vat, which is 7%. And I would want to tell your viewers that you would not want to be purchasing gold in a shopping center or in a mall or anything, any place where tourists generally go because that’s when you’re going to be paying that 2000 baht per baht, maker’s fee and a higher vat.
[00:26:00] And you’re gonna be paying much more than what you need to pay for the same item.
[00:26:04] Scott: Got it.
[00:26:05] Okay. Well you’ve also broken something down for me, and hopefully we can go through this now of the different quality levels and how they’re different. And maybe we’ll take one that’s not on this list, which is the buying from someone on a soi or on a street.
[00:26:19] We’re gonna not do that. Right? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, so let’s put that off. Don’t do that.
[00:26:22] Tom: For example, I’ll give you a very special deal on this. This is a beautiful 23 karat.
[00:26:29] Scott: Wow.
[00:26:31] same color as mine.
[00:26:32] Tom: Cuban length matches it perfectly, I think. Here we go. And it even fits you. Okay. Wow. So what, what do you think? Would you, you know, I really need the money and I’m thinking about selling that to you.
[00:26:44] For the lowest that I could go on, it would be 5,000, baht five. It’s worth 50.
[00:26:49] Scott: Yeah. Easily worth 50 at this weight. Right? Yeah. I mean, and that, yeah. This is, as you told me ahead of time, this is not real. And well, sorry, you can describe it a little bit more of exactly what it is, but I will be honest, I am not an expert in this and I might not know
[00:27:04] Tom: Well, who is an expert.
[00:27:05] Right. Even I’m not an expert really. I’ve just had a lot of experience in Thailand. This, everything evolves. There’s something that’s going on today that I’ll learn about in a week and this kind of thing, but this the true retail of something like this. As beautiful as it is, is about $35.
[00:27:25] Scott: Wow.
[00:27:26] Tom: so if this was made of actual, solid core, 96.5, this is going to be a, you know, a $6,000 purchase.
[00:27:37] Scott: Mm. Wow.
[00:27:38] Tom: So what I get out of it is there is a slight lack of density in it. Mm. It’s not as smooth as, real gold. And, and, but the only way that you would really know for sure is to have it tested, like at, the Gemological Institute of Thailand or something like that, for you to have definitive you know, result on whether it’s gold or not.
[00:27:59] But, but since I deal with gold every day and I know that this is plated.
[00:28:04] Scott: Yeah.
[00:28:04] Tom: You’re not gonna find somebody in Chinatown in an alley selling a lot of plated gold jewelry for high price because they would be driven out so quickly.
[00:28:12] Right. Great point. Right.
[00:28:15] Scott: Yeah. Well, so let’s then dive into the different tiers of gold shops that are available. Okay. Putting aside, all the fake gold or the plated gold So let’s talk about those different tiers How would you classify them?
[00:28:26] Tom: Yeah. Well the Gold Shop is one. Now Het hang sang would have better quality than, than maybe another shop or, or something like that. Hua Seng Heng is a great, a great, a gold shop to go to. They have more variety than most. The workmanship is excellent. Their maker’s fee is high, very high.
[00:28:45] Okay. Okay. So if you graduate from that.
[00:28:48] Scott: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:49] Tom: Then you’re going into something that would be considered an export item. Ah. You know, so that’s what I’ve tried to do is create, create that intermediary level.
[00:28:57] Mm. But the next step would be then going to 24 karat gold, because there are different goldsmiths that make 24 karat gold than what, who makes the 96.5.
[00:29:08] Scott: Mm.
[00:29:09] Tom: So they have more of an artistic flare in the 24 karat than you would in the 96.5. Hmm. That’s why much of the 24 karat is not based on 15.2 grams.
[00:29:23] It can be a random number because the Goldsmith said it’s going to take more gold to finish it.
[00:29:30] Scott: Ah, okay.
[00:29:31] Tom: Okay. Because that artistic part comes in, the wor, the really high end master goldsmith is the one that does that, and that’s why the labor is so much more expensive on 24 karat. Interesting. In the 96.5, you might have an apprentice that’s knocking out 50 to a hundred of these at a time because he’s paid by the weight.
[00:29:51] Scott: Got it.
[00:29:51] Tom: There’s a totally different, different quality level there. And the the ones, the, the goldsmiths that make 96.5 aren’t, they don’t make the 24 karat. Okay. And vice versa.
[00:30:03] Scott: Interesting. So we need to make that distinction. And so just to summarize this, the Hoang hang and some of these other shops that I see commonly around Thailand right?
[00:30:11] Right. Are a more commoditized market, which are targeted at typical Thai individuals that are buying gold regularly.
[00:30:20] Tom: Yes.
[00:30:20] Scott: Buying and selling gold regularly. And that’s one sort of category. It’s this commoditized gold. I think you’ve told me this before too, that the craftsmanship of that, it’s more about maybe it’s supposed to be durable, maybe it’s supposed to be scalable.
[00:30:31] Think of it as a factory that’s kind of running through and we’re always making sure that we can limit the cost that’s going to take to manufacture, but also ideally keep it somewhat durable so that it’s not gonna break or something like this.
[00:30:43] Tom: Yes.
[00:30:44] The third level would be in the shopping malls, but they’re the they’re not gold shops that you find, like in the food court area.
[00:30:53] It’s behind glass showcases. And it would be from the Pranda Group, Goldsmith. I mean, these are huge companies and Gold Masters. Now, when you look at this, it’s, it’s a, it’s several steps up in quality. Very elaborate designs, floral designs. And it’s obvious that it’s, A much higher quality. And of course the maker’s fee for that is very high. So you’re looking at, at something that might normally be 800 baht per baht to something that might be 2,400 baht per baht.
[00:31:32] Scott: Got it. And that’s again, just to clarify, that is on top of what the baht weight would be.
[00:31:38] Tom: yes. It’s on top of the weight of the gold. Okay. They’re a separate thing.
[00:31:41] Scott: Yeah, right, exactly.
[00:31:42] Tom: You’re gonna always pay the same price for the gold. But you’re gonna be paying different prices for the quality of workmanship.
[00:31:48] Scott: A cheaper, less expensive piece that’s more commoditized is going to have a maker’s fee on top of it, let’s say $10 for ballpark figure.
[00:31:57] Right. But what you’re saying is that if you’re going to one of these fancier jewelers with more intricate details put into it, you’re paying a much higher fee than $10. You might be paying a hundred dollars. Okay. Got it. So that’s the difference there.
[00:32:10] Tom: And then the last level, the most expensive would be the Sukhothai jewelry where the making of one necklace could take a month and a half because of the craftsmanship that goes into that. These are Thailand’s best master goldsmith that make jewelry that is, originally was made only for the royal family.
[00:32:34] And it’s very expensive because of the labor that goes into it. And you’ll see a lot of enameling on it. And, you know, people worry that the enameling on the sickle Thai would come off because it looks like a paint. Yeah. But it’s not a paint. It is a, it is an enameling that is, that is put on permanently, but in order for it to be permanent, it has to be on 99.99% gold.
[00:33:01] Okay. If it was put on something lesser than that, then it might flake off.
[00:33:06] Scott: Okay. So Tom, what makes the gold product that you sell differ than what someone can buy from a gold shop?
[00:33:14] Tom: Well, I’ve tried to, create a product that bridges the gap between the mass produced items in a gold shop. And the more expensive items that you would find at like Gold Master or the Pranda Group, which is very high end.
[00:33:33] So it’s, it’s something where I’m able to commission Goldsmiths and work with them directly on creating and even experimenting with different styles of links and things that aren’t available in gold shops. Most of the products that I sell are not in gold shops.
[00:33:49] Scott: Interesting. So like it when you say it’s, they’re not available, is it different designs, is it different weights?
[00:33:55] I mean, what actually makes it different?
[00:33:57] Tom: Different link designs. let’s take an example. If you have an eight inch wrist and you want to buy a Tiger Link bracelet, you cannot go into a gold shop and purchase this because it would be too long. It would have to be, it would have to be ordered. And the gold shop does not order for you.
[00:34:21] So, and in, in this case, like even the terminals on this are sold separately and made separately. So something like this is not going to be, found in a gold shop.
[00:34:33] The, one of the re things that I looked at when I first purchased gold in a gold shop is I wanted to make sure that the hallmarks were in place, like the purity stamp, the maker’s mark the factory. Because when you go into a gold shop to exchange that for cash, the first thing that they’re going to do is they’re gonna take a loop.
[00:34:55] And they’re not going to look for the purity. They already know the purity. They’re looking for who made it. Because once they know the maker, they know that it’s legitimate.
[00:35:05] Scott: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:06] Tom: That, that it’s completely good and then they’ll give you the cash right away.
[00:35:09] So that is the way it works in Thailand.That’s why Thai people don’t complain if there isn’t a purity stamp because they know that it really doesn’t mean that much. What does mean something is the maker’s mark and the factory mark.
[00:35:23] Scott: I can only imagine how much that would cost in a jewelry store
[00:35:27] Tom: Well, you, would never find it probably in a jewelry store in the us. And there’s some really interesting reasons for that, I think. But anyway, I think that my goal in the beginning was to create an exportable item. That people would, would, think was amazing and would surpass their expectation.
[00:35:49]
[00:35:49] And the other thing is, is that, The finishing on a chain, I need it to be completely finished. I don’t want parts of the bracelet to be unfinished because it already maxed out at the weight of 15.16.
[00:36:06] Mm-hmm. Because that, that will happen there. They don’t want to keep, keep polishing it and losing gold in their, in their buffing pads and things like this because it’s too expensive. That’s why you cannot find diamond cut 24K gold chains because nobody wants to lose that much gold.
[00:36:26] So there’s a lot of custom work that can be done for the discriminating American purchaser. Right. You can, you can do all kinds of things. so for them to go into a gold shop and purchase something that doesn’t have a hallmark is kind of like nicely done, but not completely perfect for them not to have your size because you have a seven and three quarter inch wrist and all of them are seven inch.
[00:36:57] Or for you to get a barling chain that is that is like 17 and a quarter inches. You know, like you can just order something from you know, somebody like me or others that do this. I mean, there’s more than me that do it. I mean, that can actually order something And then, yeah, you’re gonna pay a little more, but, you’re getting what you want, but you’re gonna be having, you’re going to own this for the rest of your life.
[00:37:28] why not just, get something that you really want.
[00:37:31] Scott: Yes.
[00:37:32] No, that’s a great point.
[00:37:33] Do you have any kind of go-to recommendations for someone that doesn’t quite know what they want? They just want a tip from someone like you?
[00:37:39] Tom: Well, I, I can only tell them what I personally like.
[00:37:43] Scott: What is that?
[00:37:44] Tom: and you know, and then they can make their decision.
[00:37:47] Men and women both like the same styles. There’s just no it’s not like I’m going to say that a woman should look at these very delicate looking, small chains because most women don’t buy those.
[00:38:00] Scott: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:00] Tom: I, my wife, loves the baring choker. You know, it’s like a four and a half inch, a four and a half millimeter choker.
[00:38:09] And it looks great. It’s very cool looking.
[00:38:12] So you spoke about export, right? So let’s imagine that someone does wanna have some gold exported.
[00:38:18] Scott: Are there additional fees that people need to be aware of when they’re purchasing gold or trying to go outside of Thailand with Thai gold?
[00:38:25] Tom: A lot’s changed since I started selling gold.
[00:38:28] I have always paid for US customs duty. And, merchandise processing fees. I’ve even supplemented the shipping because I don’t like the idea of the shipping being over a hundred dollars. It seems like it’s a lot to me.
[00:38:43] Scott: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:43] Tom: So I always try to keep it below, but it actually costs me about one 30 just for the shipping via FedEx.
[00:38:48] But having said that, times have changed. And so if we are actually looking at higher US customs charges because of enhanced tariffs, well that’s, that’s gonna change a lot. And what’s already happening is businesses that are selling online, and many of them are not registered type companies, by the way, you’ll notice there’s a per proliferation of online shopping when the price of gold gets to a certain point.
[00:39:19] Scott: Mm.
[00:39:20] Tom: Right. But what’s happening in my opinion, is there’s all of these shortcuts being taken to keep the price suppressed.
[00:39:27] Scott: Mm.
[00:39:27] Tom: And the biggest one is the shipping and insurance and the duty. Because there have been companies that would never pay the duty anyway. They’re not going to agree to pay the duty now when it might be 15%.
[00:39:42] but unless you declare the value of the item, you will not get insurance. Now, do you want to purchase a 10 baht chain or a eight baht chain or something and just ship it without any insurance? But the minute that I charge insurance, I’m gonna be taxed on that. The full price of the duty.
[00:40:05] So what companies are doing is they’re saying, oh, we take care of everything. We take care of everything. And then they don’t insure it. They don’t have to pay. In fact, do you realize that FedEx, DHL, they don’t allow gold shipments. They don’t insure gold shipments. You have to get a third party insurer to ensure that.
[00:40:27] So if you really do have to do some homework and due diligence into knowing where are these companies cutting corners to keep the price low.
[00:40:39] I wanna change gears a little bit back to, again, a common question that I’ve been asked.
[00:40:45] Scott: Let’s say that I purchased gold in the gold shop. Is it easy for me to sell that gold back to a gold shop? Is there a difference between me selling it to one gold shop versus selling it to another? Do they fear that I might be selling them fake gold? What other considerations do I have to keep in mind when selling gold to back to a gold shop?
[00:41:05] Tom: you can go to any gold shop and sell gold that was purchased from any other gold shop. They’re only gonna look for the maker’s mark. They all know every maker, every factory that it was made. They have no problem with that. When the Chinese people come in with gold bars. It makes ’em really nervous.
[00:41:25] Because they don’t know exactly how to test for this fake gold that is ubiquitous in China now. gold coins, they’re unfamiliar with they don’t want deal take, they don’t want to take the time, they don’t want to take the chance of accepting something, giving you the cash, and then they find out later that it was, of a lower purity or, or some kind of a scam.
[00:41:53] See, they’re always looking for scams themselves.
[00:41:56] Scott: Right.
[00:41:56] Tom: But no, you, you any gold chain can be brought to any gold shop and traded.
[00:42:02] Scott: Now let’s assume that someone has high gold and they’re in the states, they’re in the US and they now decided maybe the price went up and they want to cash out maybe some of that profit.
[00:42:12] How would they go about selling the Thai gold in the us?
[00:42:17] Tom: The, the best way would be to try to sell thet baht chain retail yourself, like on Reddit or on some other social media site because there’s a great demand for baht chains. a lot of people know about them now. And so you would not have to be giving up a lot of money or anything and selling it to an individual.
[00:42:39] The second thing would be to, simply contact a refinery. I refer people to Manhattan Refinery in New York.
[00:42:48] Scott: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:48] Tom: They’re honest. They, you can speak with Andrew there, and they will set you up and how to ship the to them, and they can send a check to you. I think it’s within 24 hours at spot spot minus something, but then you’re only getting spot.
[00:43:05] But if you sell it as a chain. You could probably get more than, than spot because it’s about gold chain.
[00:43:13] Scott: Right.
[00:43:14] Tom: That’s what I, but you would not probably be able to send this back to Thailand, to the seller, even though people offer these very grand return policies and you know, if you’re, if you send it back anytime.
[00:43:29] The problem is, is that the way that the Thai government’s gonna look at it is that it’s doable. And the import duty on gold and Thailand is 7%. So if you, in, if you wanna ensure that from the United States and send it to Thailand, the person on the other side is going to be billed 7%. So they’re gonna charge you for that.
[00:43:50] Scott: Okay. Got it.
[00:43:51] so given the fact that we have high purity gold, that there is demand for option number one is sell it based off the value that comes from the nice details that you’re getting, right? If you showed me some, some bracelets, a bracelet here that just beautiful. I can imagine that someone that wants, that would pay a premium for it. But it’s almost like the worst case scenario you’re gonna get a little bit less than spot. Maybe if you just said, use a couple of the options. So you have options available to you.
[00:44:16] Tom: Yes, you do.
[00:44:17] Scott: Okay, so I’m just curious, I know we’ve talked a lot about gold today, but some people had questions about silver. And I was curious, is silver something that you can purchase in Thailand?
[00:44:29] Tom: yes. You can actually purchase, silver bars from a company by the name of Bowen.
[00:44:35] You can purchase in a variety of different weights, but I think that the best deal is purchasing in the. A kilogram bars. This company charges a 7% VA upfront. So you have to get, your investment has to get beyond 7% and then, then you’re into the making money on the, on the investment. But they will deliver the bars to you at your door.
[00:45:04] And they’ll they’ll pick them up when you wanna sell. It’s very convenient. But I think some people are not used to paying a tax on silver. And it is 7%, but considering the potential of, of where silver could go to I think that could you know, work out quite well.
[00:45:24] Scott: I think you mentioned offline with me as well, the Sukhothai. They are known for silver or producing silver here.
[00:45:32] Tom: Yes. Thailand is, is. Very well known for silver. This is an example of Sukhothai. Highly detailed and, made in only one place in Thailand. It’s in Sukhothai, which used to be a ca the capital of Thailand long ago.
[00:45:49] So this is very famous. It’s purchased by Bob just like gold. And, and similarly to Sukhothai Gold, it takes a long time to make each piece.
[00:46:01] Scott: That’s beautiful.
[00:46:02] Tom: But they’re really really quite gorgeous and it’s all, it’s all, pure silver. That’s why the enameling does not, will not come off of this because it’s applied.
[00:46:13] The enameling is applied to pure silver in this case. Wow. Oh,
[00:46:18] Scott: that
[00:46:18] Tom: is beautiful.
[00:46:19] Scott: People were asking about selling, silver coins. Let’s imagine you have a, a gold, or sorry, a silver eagle or you have some Canadian coins or whatever, so, so international gold or silver.
[00:46:33] Do you think that’s something that’s a good idea to sell in Thailand? Can you go into a gold shop and say, I’ve got my gold eagle, or my silver Eagle coin? Is that reasonable?
[00:46:42] Tom: It might be. If it was gold, it might be doable. Because there are some gold shops that actually collect gold coins.
[00:46:50] ’cause it’s not that common in Thailand. Everybody wants something they can’t readily get. when it comes to silver I don’t think that there’s any value. It’s almost like if you had a, if 18 karat gold ring that you wanted to trade in, it’s just not really worth there. Their time to refine that.
[00:47:09] Scott: Okay. No worries. Well, you’ve been incredibly generous with your time. Tom, I’m just curious, is there anything that I didn’t ask you that you wish I had?
[00:47:18] Tom: There is one thing I thought perhaps you would ask. Why is it that jewelry stores in the United States or elsewhere don’t sell a high karat gold product. That would be a question that, that I would ask. And I think that the answer to that is that there’s such value in high carrot gold today that it would compete directly with the product that they’re selling in their shops, and they would never be able to price the two where they could make profit from both.
[00:47:53] If you have 23 karat gold in a jewelry store, everyone would gravitate toward that. And it would make all of the 14 karat and 18 karat look pale in comparison to both price workmanship. You know, this is something that the jewelry market in the US does not want to see. And the same is true with gemstones.
[00:48:19] Because when you go into a jewelry store in gemstones, most all of the jewelry is accented with diamonds. And this is considered to be valuable. But in Thailand, we know that the price of diamonds is very low. Now it’s very low. So the value of 14 karat gold and 18 karat gold does is just not adequate enough to compete with the high karat gold.
[00:48:44] Scott: What a great point. I think it does speak to the fact that you can have something very special when you purchase these higher purity golds because to your point, the jeweler, the jewelers and the jewelry shops in the US might not have that incentive to provide it. But if you’re aware of it, by watching videos like this right then you can have something really special that really should be very highly sought after.
[00:49:10] Tom: I spoke with a, jeweler in california, I was interested in getting the product into, their shop. and keep in mind that I’ve been selling my product to AAFES, which is used to be called the px, AAFES Air Force, exchanges in the United States, for six years. So my product is being sold there.
[00:49:36] But I talked to this jeweler who said that if he were to buy the, high karat gold product from Thailand, he’d have to reprice everything in his shop. Either that or he’d have to convert completely to high karat gold because there wouldn’t be an, it would be things being com it would be competing against yourself basically.
[00:49:56] But in AAFES, the, thing that they did not consider, Scott, was selling gold as an investment, because when you sell gold as an investment, you can’t mark it up three times and sell it like it’s fashion jewelry, people are purchasing it at the lowest possible margin, so it will appreciate in time.
[00:50:20] And what did AAFES do at all 27 locations? They marked it up three times. So they’re, they’re trying to sell a one baht chain right, that I’m selling for say $1,850 for over $3,400 per baht.
[00:50:38] Scott: Wow.
[00:50:39] It’s almost like the get the best kept secret, those who know know, right?
[00:50:43] Tom: That’s right. that’s right.
[00:50:45] I mean, you have all of these service numbers looking at gold in the AAFES that they can easily find cheaper online on their phone within a minute. And so the sales that the, the sales are, are maybe great as an impulse item in the beginning, but then they just slowly fade off to, well, that wasn’t such a good idea.
[00:51:05] But in reality it’s a great idea. Look what, what Costco has done.
[00:51:08] Scott: They’re selling the bars and, and yeah, they’re not selling, they’re selling them at Costco prices. Right. Yeah. Interesting. Now again, you’ve been so generous with your time. I’d like to make sure that the viewers know the best way to either learn more about the products that you sell, learn more about your business, and learn more where they can, about your channel. ‘Cause I understand you also have a YouTube channel, so go ahead and, share with them.
[00:51:33] Tom: Yes. I hope to continue with my YouTube channel at 23KGold. And my website is 23kgold.com.
[00:51:42] Scott: Nice.
[00:51:43] Tom: It was very nice meeting you today.
