[00:00:00] Brendan Cunningham: If you’re starting a business here from scratch, your first hires are very important. One of the most important things is finding the right people. I’d i’d actually go further to argue it is the most important thing and, those first hires, I think you’ll often find in the businesses that I meet that set up one or 2, 3, 4 people and then have longevity.
[00:00:21] Brendan Cunningham: Those one or two, three or four are often still with the business 5, 10, 15 years later. So finding those right people at the start of the journey is just critical.
[00:00:32] Scott Pressimone: Another challenge that I think of a lot of owners face here is retaining talent, right? Do you have any ideas on how to retain good talent?
[00:00:46] Scott Pressimone: All right, Brendan, thank you so much for joining me today.
[00:00:49] Brendan Cunningham: Good to have you in our office again.
[00:00:51] Scott Pressimone: yes. So we’re actually recording this in the ASW office, which is in the park. That’s right. Which is a like really modern, amazing building. So how long have you all been here in the park?
[00:01:02] Brendan Cunningham: We got the office space the end of 2023.
[00:01:06] Brendan Cunningham: So we’re coming up to two years, almost two years in the office space. Yeah. I joined in April 24, myself there. So I’m about 18 months in here.
[00:01:15] Scott Pressimone: Nice, I absolutely love the area here. If anyone has a chance to stop by the office, please do. but without further ado, I love for people to get to know you, Brendan.
[00:01:24] Scott Pressimone: So would you mind giving a brief introduction, who you are, where you’re from, what you do, and then we can jump in?
[00:01:30] Brendan Cunningham: Certainly. Brendan Cunningham, originally from Australia, I was from Sydney, Tasmania, Queensland, Perth. I got around before I, I came here to Thailand in 2000. I’m currently the regional Business Development director for ASW Consulting.
[00:01:46] Brendan Cunningham: ASW Consulting is an executive search recruitment firm that’s part of a larger company called ASY Global, which is an international talent partnering firm offices headquartered down Sydney offices in Manila, Ho Chi Minh City, Kuala Lumpur, and of course Bangkok.
[00:02:04] Scott Pressimone: Yes. And we had to make this, time work for you because I know you travel quite a bit as well. I hear you’ve been coming to and from Vietnam quite a bit as well.
[00:02:11] Brendan Cunningham: For the consulting part of the business. Our teams are based in Bangkok and Hojimin City, so I’m in and out of both. I’m, I live in work in Thailand and I spend half my working time in Ho Chi Min City and in Bangkok.
[00:02:25] Scott Pressimone: Yes. Yes. That explains it.
[00:02:27] Brendan Cunningham: I’m very fortunate.
[00:02:28] Scott Pressimone: Yeah, it’s a good, it’s a good mix there. so what I’d like to know here first is you’ve been here for years, right? And so I wanna rewind back to when you first got here. You took your first trips to Thailand. What actually drew you over to Thailand originally?
[00:02:43] Brendan Cunningham: I was a classic case and there’s more than one of my case of somebody who arrived here on a short term basis.
[00:02:49] Brendan Cunningham: I, I came here basically for a year, in my mind at that time, in, in beginning of 2000. and I had plans of going different places. south America was on my mind. Europe, of course. I never got to any of those, but not yet anyway. Still time I’ve been here ever since.
[00:03:09] Scott Pressimone: nice. What do you think? I think that happens, like you said to a lot of us, right?
[00:03:12] Scott Pressimone: Yeah. We get here, we expect we’ll go somewhere else, but you, it’s hard to not fall in love with the place a little bit.
[00:03:17] Brendan Cunningham: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:03:18] Scott Pressimone: So what do you think has actually held you here for so many years?
[00:03:21] Brendan Cunningham: it’s definitely a, range of things. I’d have to say the obvious one first is family.
[00:03:28] Brendan Cunningham: my wife and kids are, Thai nationals, so it’s my family, but would naturally be number one. the second thing is the career. I’ve been very fortunate that I’ve had a, wonderful career path for that’s across multiple companies that, that has allowed me to enjoy my work the whole time I’ve been here, which is really important.
[00:03:51] Brendan Cunningham: and then there’s also the things that not only keep people here, but bring people back. The food, the culture, the things It’s always interesting and very, importantly, the people, the people of this country are wonderful and it’s just a great place to live.
[00:04:08] Scott Pressimone: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:04:10] Scott Pressimone: how many years has it been then altogether for you then?
[00:04:12] Brendan Cunningham: it’s interesting. In, a few months, I guess at the end of this year, it comes up to 26 and I, without giving away my age, at the end of this year, I would’ve lived exactly half my life in Thailand and exactly half in Australia.
[00:04:27] Scott Pressimone: Wow. It’s scary to think about, right?
[00:04:30] Brendan Cunningham: It is.
[00:04:32] Scott Pressimone: Yeah. I’ve been here for I think maybe 13 or so years, and I’m starting to, yeah, make the same calculation. It’s okay, the majority of my adulthood has been so far away from my home country, which is not ’cause I dislike my home country, but it’s back to the point of there’s something sticky about Thailand where you just, you know,
[00:04:48] Brendan Cunningham: and agree.
[00:04:49] Brendan Cunningham: And just to that point, I, love being Australian. Yeah. I’m a very patriotic. Australian person. Yeah. but my home is Thailand. Yeah. it’s no longer Australian. My home is, Thailand.
[00:05:02] Scott Pressimone: Yeah. That’s, a great way to put it. I, think some people run away from things, whether it be their home country or just, problems they have there.
[00:05:09] Scott Pressimone: But I think plenty of us love our home countries. Yes. And it’s not anything against Australia, the us, anything. No.
[00:05:16] Brendan Cunningham: Just found a, part of the world that has become more homely than, where we grew up, Yes. The best way to look at it.
[00:05:23] Scott Pressimone: Absolutely. to get into why I invited you onto the podcast, so I’ve known you now for, probably a couple years, through your involvement with the Australian Chamber, through networking events.
[00:05:37] Scott Pressimone: I see you at all the time. You’re very active. We’ll touch on that today. but the reason I really wanted to speak with you in more depth, Brendan, is because I think a lot of business owners or entrepreneurs in Thailand struggle a lot when building a company. and of course one of the most important parts of building a company is people, building a team, building an effective team.
[00:06:01] Scott Pressimone: And I’ve heard from more than one expat here that they’re just unsure if they can do it. Yeah. Because, at first, I think during the honeymoon period, it seems amazing. And is to think, oh, I can absolutely start a business here. There’s all these opportunities, it’s gonna be great. and I think sometimes owners get past that honeymoon and then they start having problems with staff.
[00:06:26] Scott Pressimone: They start having problems with their team. maybe people are bringing up issues to them. All these things happen. And they almost wanna throw their hands up and say, this is impossible. This is, just, this is so much different. And you’re not a person that I hear that from, because I think you’ve got through that or you’ve got to the other side. and that’s why you’ve been here for so many years. So what I’m hoping to do today is just talk through some of those lessons that you’ve learned or, any wisdom that you can share To help entrepreneurs get to that other side. Great. And find success here. Great. I’m open to sharing. Of course. Yes. Awesome. So let’s maybe start in almost chronological order. Let’s say that there is, an individual that is starting their business here. They might have some funding, they might have maybe a successful business, outside of Thailand.
[00:07:18] Scott Pressimone: And they now want to either start or expand their operations in Thailand. And now they’re looking for some of their first Thai hires. Of course, there are ratios people need to be aware of when it comes to, you have to hire a certain number of Thai nationals in order to sponsor a work permit, For a foreigner here. So they might be faced with this idea of who are my first four core Thai hires? how do I find the right people? And maybe we can dig a little bit deeper into that.
[00:07:47] Brendan Cunningham: If you’re starting a business here from scratch, that you’re very correct in saying your first hires are very important. and you mentioned earlier one of the most important things is finding the right people. I’d actually go further to argue it is the most important thing. and those first hires, I think you’ll often find in the businesses that I make that set up one or 2, 3, 4 people and then have longevity.
[00:08:15] Brendan Cunningham: Those one or two, three or four are often still with the business when, 5, 10, 15 years later. So finding those right people at the start of the, journey is just critical. if they come from one of the top universities, great. It, certainly shouldn’t be at the, top of the pile that we need to find that first batch of people from these universities.
[00:08:44] Brendan Cunningham: Yo, you really are looking yes, at the CV qualifications, but I dunno how to explain this in any other way than you’re looking for the right people. and it’s finding a very critical match for how that person works with you, their personality, their characteristics, their motivation and drive for being part of your business.
[00:09:06] Brendan Cunningham: you’re essentially looking for a new best friend. I would think that those first critical hires, And how do you go about it? there’s still the traditional ways of recruiting haven’t changed in the past 50 years. you post a job ad you collect cvs, you scan the cvs, you then go through the interview process, and you select the right people.
[00:09:31] Brendan Cunningham: Where it has changed is, where we used to look in the Saturday newspaper before the internet. That obviously doesn’t happen much anymore. That trans transitions onto job boards. so job boards on Jobs DB, Seek, et cetera. but then LinkedIn job boards and even further into Facebook groups. so for certain types of people that you’re looking for, you post in different Facebook groups to find them.
[00:09:58] Brendan Cunningham: And these days, even people are going on TikTok and doing little videos saying, I’m looking for this. Can anyone give a referral? So that part has the, process is the same in that you, you need to advertise, but the way it’s done is different. interviewing’s different. It was always face to face.
[00:10:15] Brendan Cunningham: Now, most of the interviews we do now, initial interviews are, video screening. Instead of asking someone to come all the way across town, or you might even be in another country when you’re doing that initial interviewing, it’s, all online process. but then particularly for a small business wanting to set up, you fly in and you sit down face to face and you get to know those people.
[00:10:40] Brendan Cunningham: So yeah, it’s, the basics have changed. The way we do it has evolved with technology.
[00:10:47] Scott Pressimone: Now, one thing I’m curious about, Brendan, is how the filtration method at the start of the process obviously changes how things happen downstream from that. So I get that this depends on the role, but I’m just curious, do you tend to err on the side of filtering a lot of the top?
[00:11:06] Scott Pressimone: So for instance, if you have all these CVs. Would you say, I’ve got a stack of 20 cvs, I’m only gonna start to look at the ones, like I said, from a certain university. Or do you tend to be a little bit more open, at that start of that process and put a little bit more of the filtration in that maybe first round interview?
[00:11:23] Brendan Cunningham: Key word matching is what most recruitment people do. in that you post a job description and we now have AI to actually do that for us. Yes. but if I go old school, just using my own eyes, yeah. we’ve got a job description and we have key words or sentences that we have already told the market, this is what we are looking for.
[00:11:46] Brendan Cunningham: People who can do this, it will be successful in our role. And then we look at the cv. So I would advise anyone who’s looking for a job, read the job description, tailor your CV to the job description. ’cause that’s initially what we are looking for. So if we are looking for A, B, C, and then I’m looking at the top of a CV and it’s got X, Y, Z.
[00:12:08] Brendan Cunningham: Might even have a, b, C at the bottom. I might not see it. You are looking for this type of person? Look at the jobs I’ve been doing and the jobs I’ve been doing. Are that are what you’re looking for? Yes. Okay. Step one, I’m looking for this. You do this, I’m going to interview you. That’s, if you receive 500, if a lot of LinkedIn posts, there are 500 replies.
[00:12:33] Brendan Cunningham: and you’re looking to that very basic, I’m looking for this. You do that. Great. Yes. You’re through the mix. The first round of interviews.
[00:12:42] Scott Pressimone: Yeah. So that’s a great tip for people. I think that I do see, I’ve seen so many applications for roles I’ve, published and hired for, and some people will not tailor their CV at all.
[00:12:53] Scott Pressimone: And I think that’s a missed opportunity. I don’t tend to see a lot of cover letters even. Yeah. and so to your point. We all are busy, and as much as we want hiring managers to be open to different hires and open to our backgrounds, you have to tailor that cv. Otherwise, the individual, the hiring manager, the HR department, whatever it may be, is not gonna see the keywords and they’re gonna filter you out, right?
[00:13:16] Brendan Cunningham: That’s right. Yes.
[00:13:18] Brendan Cunningham: So that’s very important at the start, and that gets you in the door. Then when you get into the first interview online, you are assessing, you’ve told me you can do this. I’m now going to check by asking you questions. Can you do this or not? Yes. The way we do the interviews, two ways, one, you skills assessment, you’ve said you could do it, I’m going to ask you very direct questions about your experience doing it, and for examples on how you’ve done it, just to, to check if, are you as good as you say you are?
[00:13:49] Brendan Cunningham: The second part of the interview, whether it’s interviewing for say, me, for my team, or for the clients in terms of what they’ve told us they’re looking for is, more culture fit. when culture fit, company culture fit. So the company will say, this is the type of company we are, this is the type of person we are looking for that will be successful in our company.
[00:14:10] Brendan Cunningham: So we ask the type of questions that assess, behavioral characteristics that match what the company’s looking for as well. Yes. And if they tick both boxes yet skills, they’re competent culturally they look a match, that’s when we’d move on to the, next round.
[00:14:27] Scott Pressimone: Yes. Yes.
[00:14:28] Scott: Whoa there. Hold up for just one second. I’m sorry to interrupt, but if you are struggling with business operations, cultural challenges, or growing your business in Thailand, you are not alone. This market is really tough to navigate. I know because I’ve been here since 2012 and I’ve experienced a lot of these challenges myself.
[00:14:47] Scott: That’s why I founded Fractiond, a Thailand-based consulting firm aimed at helping businesses succeed in Thailand. My Accenture experience from the US, and our community of top consultants from around the world, allow us to deliver top tier strategy and execution to businesses in Thailand. If you wanna learn more, you can book a free 15 minute discovery call to see how we can help your business.
[00:15:11] Scott: You can email us at [email protected]. Alright, back to the show.
[00:15:17] Scott Pressimone: Okay. I like too that you brought up the skills assessment, because I’ve seen some hiring managers think of that more as a, Hey, can you do this thing?
[00:15:27] Scott Pressimone: And they take people’s word at face value, And then you end up with a big problem. Yes. The road. Oops, you. You said you knew the CRM or you said, this software, and then they don’t. No. So it sounds like if it has those kind of hard skills or those specific capabilities, it sounds like you have some good assessments going on just to make sure and test it, right?
[00:15:46] Brendan Cunningham: Yeah. You just ask basically for examples, if somebody says they can do something, tell, me about it. Yeah. They just explain to me how you did it. Even if it’s something very basic, explain to me the process. Yes. And, the way people answer, you can pick up on as well. people who are highly competent in it reel off the answer.
[00:16:06] Brendan Cunningham: It just flows off the tongue. And if somebody’s pausing and ing anding Surely if you were doing this every day for three years, it shouldn’t be this hard to answer. And maybe it is. somebody who is, I wasn’t ready for the interview. I have been doing it competently for three years. I just wasn’t ready for the interview.
[00:16:23] Brendan Cunningham: That’s a failure on your part as well. Yes. Prepare for interviews. Yes. Yes.
[00:16:30] Scott Pressimone: Absolutely. and tell me if this is something you do as well, but I sometimes find that interviewers like yourself, and like your team is I’m sure very experienced at this, but you have to go layers deep. And if someone’s not answering the question at that surface level and you’re not asking, oh, that wasn’t quite specific enough.
[00:16:47] Scott Pressimone: Can you, go a little bit deeper? This, I think if you don’t do that, it’s easy to rush through things. Yes. And you’re not really testing it. That’s Right. Because with that in mind as well, that’s a good point, Scott. In terms of going deeper, you’re also, testing for consistency. So sometimes you’ll ask the same question in a different way and you’re testing for consistency as well.
[00:17:09] Brendan Cunningham: and then you’ll do that. That’s often done across multiple interviews as well. So if I interview someone and someone interviews after me, as a candidate, you must realize that we’re going to come together and crosscheck after that and, discuss. I, this person said this person said this. And if it’s not the same, then red flags come up as well.
[00:17:29] Brendan Cunningham: yes. so it, we’re, moving into a bit of candidate advice. Be prepared. Yeah. be very prepared to go deep and be very genuine as well. If you don’t know how to do something, don’t say you don’t get away with it.
[00:17:44] Scott Pressimone: yes. Oh, I love that, idea of being genuine. I can just share from a recent example of someone I hired and I’ve now been working with for the last two years or so.
[00:17:54] Scott Pressimone: it was for a marketing position, Brendan, and, I asked this individual a very specific marketing question and the fact that he answered it incorrectly, Was actually totally fine for me. Because elsewhere in the interview he proved his, interest and other areas that I think he could develop.
[00:18:14] Scott Pressimone: but just because the answer is no, doesn’t mean you have to BS and, try to pretend. Yes, you can be a little bit, you can be honest about it and say, I think it means this, but I’m not sure.
[00:18:23] Scott Pressimone: And, that to me just built up trust to be honest.
[00:18:25] Brendan Cunningham: Yes. Agreed. Yes. Yes. Be honest, be genuine. ’cause that’s a very important thing that every employee is looking for.
[00:18:33] Brendan Cunningham: Can I trust this person? Yeah. we’re going to spend, be spending a lot of time together if we’re working together. Trust is, very important. And the second any employer picks up on a, I don’t think you are being honest, then you’re not going to go any further.
[00:18:49] Scott Pressimone: Yes, Now I am wondering if we can go on a slight tangent, just because we touched on a couple piece of candidate advice.
[00:18:56] Scott Pressimone: Yeah. So that’s from the employer side. But I’m not sure if you do how much recruitment you do for foreigners. but if we imagine that there’s an experienced foreigner that’s maybe been in leadership positions abroad and they’re now coming to Thailand, are there any mistakes you see a lot of these foreigners make when they’re looking to get hired into a position?
[00:19:17] Scott Pressimone: or things that they should avoid or be aware of so they can be more successful in Thailand? Any thoughts?
[00:19:22] Brendan Cunningham: the main piece and I do, receive contact with a lot of, people from outside Thailand. either they’ve worked here before based here, but things have changed or they’re, just looking to come in.
[00:19:37] Brendan Cunningham: my main piece of advice to everyone is the, need to be patient, because the, employment market for that’s open to foreign nationals is a lot smaller than the available, foreign nationals looking for employ. so it’s never a case of No, you won’t find anything. It’s a case of being very patient, and be prepared to be persistent.
[00:20:04] Brendan Cunningham: I, if I haven’t replied to anyone, I’ll apologize in advance, but I, really do try to get back to everyone, and just say, seen through your profile. because I’m also honest with them, if, we’re able to help somebody get a job with one of our clients, that’s how we make money. Yes. So, the idea that I could help them find a job is top of my priority.
[00:20:29] Brendan Cunningham: My ability to do it is the part that’s limited. so I always well intend to always write back. please send your profile through. I’ll share it with my team if anyone can help. if we do talk to a client that has, is open to, foreign, to expats, great. I’ll go back through my list and try to find matches, et cetera.
[00:20:52] Brendan Cunningham: So be. patient is the first one, and the second one is when they, do something in my profile, do this to more than just me. not everyone will write back. I will. And I know a few of the other people in the industry who always write back as well. but even if you don’t receive a reply, just keep sending them and don’t be put off by it.
[00:21:15] Brendan Cunningham: The only way you can get out there to, find something is to tell your story, to put yourself out there. and that’s probably the next thing is, we’ll talk about networking later, but get out into the market, go to Chamber of Commerce events, go to any other type of event. if you’re, your favorite sport is if you’re coming from the UK and you’re a football player, go join one of the football leagues.
[00:21:39] Brendan Cunningham: ’cause a lot of the business people you want to eventually work with are playing in those leagues as well. Yeah. so just put yourself out there, build a network. Send it out to recruiters like myself and just get your story out there and see what, eventually, lands on the hook.
[00:21:58] Scott Pressimone: Got it. So what I’m gathering from that is that if someone meets you at an event, they might like you, you might like them, you might want to help ’em.
[00:22:05] Scott Pressimone: But they shouldn’t be saying, ah, Brendan’s got this for me. He’s gonna come back to me with some opportunities. Because to your point, I mean you, there’s probably not all those opportunities that they may be thinking, As well connected as you are. there’s not always this huge number of clients that are looking for expat hires and have those openings.
[00:22:24] Scott Pressimone: So if they’re just crossing their fingers and just waiting on you, that’s not the way to do it. They gotta proactive them, be proactive themselves. That’s right. yeah. that’s great advice. Brendan, so now getting a little bit back into the perspective of the companies that are operating, here, another challenge that I think of a lot of owners face here.
[00:22:47] Scott Pressimone: Is retaining talent, right? because you might have a great employee for a year or so and you’re trying to get past that first stage and you’re trying to get some momentum and then poof. Now a key hire has left you right. And maybe they didn’t even give you a lot of notice. And so I think people get, they almost wanna throw their hands up at those stages.
[00:23:09] Scott Pressimone: ’cause it’s oh my gosh, I invested in this person. I gave them all these things. They didn’t gimme one or two months notice. and that can be very frustrating. Absolutely. So I’m just curious, do you have any ideas on how to retain good talent or how to avoid those situations at least as much as possible?
[00:23:25] Brendan Cunningham: if we look through, I think we’ll look at it from an SME point of view, right? ’cause yeah. Big companies would have talent management programs that run deep into the company. So if you’re an SME and you’ve made those first few hires and you wouldn’t have an in depth talent management plan. the key is just to.
[00:23:46] Brendan Cunningham: Communicate that you’re coming to an SME, here is our career path, or here is your career path. And if the answer is there isn’t really a career path at the moment, then communicate that. Or if, here’s what we’re planning it to be, communicate whatever you have from the beginning. check the pulse of that, the employee.
[00:24:12] Brendan Cunningham: Is that okay with you? And if that’s okay, great, then we’ll move forward. And then continually check the pulse of that. And so not always asking the same questions. Do you remember that career path I told you about? You’re still okay, but you’re always checking in. How’s the job going? What, what’s working for you?
[00:24:30] Brendan Cunningham: What, do you need from me? How can I help you? So just continually check the policy in multiple different ways. And then there’s the things that they, you ask a question and they don’t say to you. so body language speaks as much as, the words we say, right? So you ask the question, how’s everything going?
[00:24:51] Brendan Cunningham: Good. Okay. That doesn’t sound good. So, rather say that, just say, okay, how’s your work? Yeah, it’s easy. Okay. Do you want something more difficult? Do you want to challenge and, really try to find ways, but how do I keep things interesting for you if that’s you might have an employee. I like having things systematically laid out in front of me.
[00:25:14] Brendan Cunningham: And as long as you keep it that way and you don’t change things for me, I’ll be with you for life. Great. Then that’s what I’ll do for you. And then the next employee sitting next to that person is, I thrive on learning. So I’ve been working here for a year. I already know how to do my job. if you don’t give me something else to learn, I’m probably gonna go look for somewhere else that does.
[00:25:40] Brendan Cunningham: Okay, how do I make your job more interesting? I guess it’s essentially looking at your employees similar to how you look at your clients. You, when you go talk to a client, you check is, everything okay? Is our service, is the service we’re offering good? Are you happy with what we are doing? Can we do anything different for you?
[00:26:00] Brendan Cunningham: it’s ’cause you want to keep your clients retained. Clients are much more valuable than trying to find the new clients. That’s, so it’s the same concept, just constantly checking in with your top talent. I don’t wanna lose you. Tell me what I need to do to keep you is basically not those words, but always be checking in on that.
[00:26:20] Brendan Cunningham: So that’s one part of the puzzle. I think,
[00:26:24] Scott Pressimone: I love when you mentioned it’s very similar to how you might handle a client, because one thought that I have when I’ve done satisfaction surveys and stuff like that for some of my clients, we, look and say, who are the happy clients? And you may have, NPS surveys or these other things, but the way I look at it is.
[00:26:40] Scott Pressimone: Just because only three of your clients rated you low doesn’t mean that only three clients think that way. Yes. Only so many people will raise their hand in the positive and only so many people raise their hand in the negative. Yes. So then you have to extrapolate a little bit and say, some people aren’t talking.
[00:26:54] Scott Pressimone: Yeah. And sharing. And so that just reminded me of that when you’re mentioning that you can’t take some of these responses at face value, because, tell me if I’m wrong on this, Brendan, when it comes to comparing typically, Western culture, individuals in Australia, America, the uk I, I have assumed that on average more people raise their hands in dissatisfaction than they necessarily do in Southeast Asia or in Thailand.
[00:27:23] Scott Pressimone: Yes,
[00:27:23] Brendan Cunningham: correct. That’s.
[00:27:24] Scott Pressimone: And so you mentioned reading the individual and not taking it at face value, digging a little bit deeper For the people that aren’t saying I’m satisfied or I’m dissatisfied. That’s right.
[00:27:33] Brendan Cunningham: And, I suppose it’s depending on the size of your team. Once again, we’re looking at small businesses.
[00:27:39] Brendan Cunningham: So as your team grows, but you have a small team, really just take that time to treat everyone as an individual and get to know every individual. knowing those first few hires, especially are your new best friends that are likely going to be with you for a very long time and really get to know each individual need.
[00:27:59] Brendan Cunningham: Now, ideally, your business scales, and then those people might even become the managers if that’s their intention, that’s what they want to be. Not everyone wants to be a manager. and then they start, they’ve learned from you how to do that, and they start doing that, and that’s how you scale people wise.
[00:28:17] Scott Pressimone: I love when you said not everyone wants to be a manager.
[00:28:19] Brendan Cunningham: Yeah.
[00:28:20] Scott Pressimone: that’s something I just, seen so often is that people get promoted into positions they never wanted. Yes. Because they were high performers. And the, you go back to the individual again, and it’s if you know the individual, And you’re asking them if they want that, as opposed to saying, you’ve done such a great job. I’m promoting you into this people management position. Yes. That they never wanted
[00:28:39] Brendan Cunningham: No. And maybe don’t have the skillset. They’re, highly confident at their job, what they’re doing. That doesn’t mean if they’ve never managed people before, that’s a whole new, very different skill.
[00:28:51] Brendan Cunningham: Again, whatever this job was. So do they have that skill? Do they want that skill? And if they are interested, the first thing, it’s a different topic again, but that’s when you need to go into training mode. Okay. Before we make you a manager, let’s train you how to be a manager. Not just throw you in the deep end, say, you used to work with this group, now you’re the boss of this group.
[00:29:14] Brendan Cunningham: Good luck. That’s recipe for disaster.
[00:29:18] Scott Pressimone: Yes. And that reminds me of something else you said earlier too, was when I asked you this question, you said, this sounds in a question for SMEs. And because, as you said, these training programs and all these other things, this pipeline, Exist in these larger companies already.
[00:29:34] Scott Pressimone: But SMEs don’t necessarily have that.
[00:29:36] Brendan Cunningham: No.
[00:29:37] Scott Pressimone: But one thing I, want to know, ’cause you’ve worked with so many companies here, is that, do you think it’s possible for SMEs to learn from larger companies in some of these ways? Yeah. Such as having training programs? ’cause I think it’s easy to say, I’m a small business.
[00:29:51] Scott Pressimone: I can’t have some org chart now. I don’t know what I need now. Or I don’t have time to create a training program or career path. or, and things like this. And I’d argue that those are a little bit of excuses. Yes. ’cause can’t you do a larger, like a light version Of what larger companies do?
[00:30:09] Brendan Cunningham: Yes, of course you can. and simple things like an org chart. Yes. You need to have that, even if there’s five people in your company. we all know where we sit. do you put it there and then it’s very clear where everyone sits, and then training. Yeah. If you’re identifying skills gaps.
[00:30:30] Brendan Cunningham: Whether it’s technical or in this case, people, if you want to promote someone to be a manager, then well, we don’t need to promote them to be a, train them to be a manager. We’ll just tell them what to do. have some, even if it’s just you as the, boss doing regular coaching with your potential manager, then that’s constitutes a training course.
[00:30:54] Brendan Cunningham: Let’s, sit down once a week for whatever time period. And let’s talk through the skills that are required and the expectations of us as a company for you to be a successful manager. Yes. So you still need to do it. It doesn’t mean you need to go out and hire a, big, spend a lot of money on a company.
[00:31:17] Brendan Cunningham: If you, are able to, that’s probably a, better option. But if you’re not able to then just invest your own time in providing that, that training.
[00:31:26] Scott Pressimone: Yes. I love that. ’cause yeah, there are all these tools that’ll say, oh, we do semi-annual reviews and we use this platform like small improvements and some of these other tools, but some companies can’t afford that.
[00:31:36] Scott Pressimone: But I love what you just pointed out, like of recurring weekly meeting or quarterly review, whatever it is, it’s something you can manage on a spreadsheet and on your calendar. Yes. Yeah. But you
[00:31:47] Brendan Cunningham: can’t avoid it. No. You, need to do it. You need to be checking in, checking the pulse. You’re always checking the pulse and making sure everything’s okay.
[00:31:55] Scott Pressimone: Yes. I love that. And the other thing that stuck with me was that I think you’ve mentioned people not knowing necessarily their roles are not being, clear on what the roles are. I think when you’re a growing company, roles change a lot. Yes. And if you’re not revisiting the roles, then I, think there that can cause a lot of tension, Brendan.
[00:32:12] Scott Pressimone: Yeah. Because I like, I think when no one quite knows who’s responsible for something, because maybe it’s a new thing that came up that didn’t exist before, then everyone thinks they’re doing a favor for someone else. And they might feel inside, why do I have to do this? Why do I have to help this other person?
[00:32:28] Scott Pressimone: It’s because no one’s been defined as being the owner of that responsibility. And so if you’re not revisiting it, you probably are gonna have a little bit of tension in your organization. Yes.
[00:32:39] Brendan Cunningham: and of good. My responsibility. One, one of our core values is accountability, which I’m a big fan of.
[00:32:45] Brendan Cunningham: And a good way to share that among the organization is rather than ’cause small business things are always changing. and if we go back to the big change in the world a few years ago, and that meant that things are just changing. Anyway, two words came out of, the, COVID epidemic. The, you needed to be agile.
[00:33:10] Brendan Cunningham: Yeah, and you need to pivot. I think I heard those two a thousand times during those couple of years. Or we were agile and we pivoted. but we don’t need, we don’t stop doing that, right? So you’re looking at the market and if things are well, then you keep on track. And if things aren’t looking well, you can see down the track that you’re going to hit an obstacle.
[00:33:29] Brendan Cunningham: You need to be agile and pivot that, that hasn’t changed. you need, you do need to be revisiting things all the time. And back to the accountability, what I think is a good way to do it, particularly with a small business, often the small business will look up and think, you are the boss. everything and, you just tell us what to do.
[00:33:50] Brendan Cunningham: So if you can very early in the piece establish, I’m the boss because I take ultimate responsibility, but I don’t know everything. And I would really, I’ve hired you and I would really appreciate you guys helping me with. ’cause I don’t know everything. So when we do need to revisit things, rather than say, okay, we are changing and I’m going to make you do this and I’m changing everything.
[00:34:15] Brendan Cunningham: It’s all, what do you guys think? So you are actually doing the job. Yeah. Tell me what, you’re doing. Tell me how you can build better. Tell me what you need. Tell me, do we need to change it? And just constantly ask. And then if your people are giving you the ideas, good, let’s do that. Now you’re accountable for that.
[00:34:35] Brendan Cunningham: ’cause you told me that’s what we should be doing.
[00:34:37] Scott Pressimone: Yeah.
[00:34:39] Scott Pressimone: Accountability. Yep. Absolutely. Comes with it.
[00:34:40] Brendan Cunningham: Yeah. That’s how I’ve still got your back. Yeah. So I’ve agreed to it. I’m accountable as well. So we’re both accountable. You’re accountable for making it happen. But I’m, as a boss, I’m at essentially the main accountability, but I don’t know everything, so I need you to help me with what we should be doing.
[00:35:00] Scott Pressimone: I love that. That does tie into the next topic around. Office culture. And I, just wanna double down on what you just said about that openness and, those dialogues you have with team members Yeah. About sharing ideas Or about pushing back on things Yeah. Or whatever. Because one thing I often see too, that foreigners do when they’re here is that they might have a forceful thought on something. And they’ll say, we should do this, and this is why. And what do you guys think? this is a good idea. and then in Thailand especially, you’re gonna get, oh, yeah,
[00:35:34] Scott Pressimone: And then that individual might be thinking, I already asked the team, and they supported it. Not realizing that it’s really hard in this, it’s not common in this culture, let’s say. Yeah. To take something that’s moving a momentum in some way where the boss, as you just said Yeah. Saying something, it’s hard to push back.
[00:35:52] Scott Pressimone: Yeah. If you didn’t develop that culture in the company of that openness and willingness to listen and to your team. Yeah. It’s hard to do here. but I want to tie that to like what you have found and how you’ve developed a good culture. Because, teeing this up a little bit too, Brendan, is that I visited a lot of office in Bangkok and when I visit, you can pretty immediately tell an office culture Yeah.
[00:36:14] Scott Pressimone: And tell whether or not it’s the big, Kun, Brendan said this, and everyone else is just following. Yeah. Or it’s individuals that are making decisions that are all involved. And when I come into this office, I have come a couple times and your team is very open. They’re helping, they’re not looking to you to do everything, and they’re not shying away from approaching me and bringing me in and stuff like this.
[00:36:35] Scott Pressimone: So you’ve obviously developed this culture where people are sharing People are contributing, they are showing up with ideas. So do you have any tips for how you’ve done that? Any, values that you stick with your office culture or any recommendations you’d have?
[00:36:51] Brendan Cunningham: Yeah, I think something I eventually learned, I.
[00:36:56] Brendan Cunningham: Many people slide into a habit of saying things like tide, people are like this. Yeah. And you hear it all the time from foreigners working here. Tide people for me as well. I’ll, be honest. Yeah. We’ve all done it. Yeah. But if anyone says they’ve never done it, I would question their honesty.
[00:37:16] Brendan Cunningham: Thai people are like this, and you essentially put Thai people in a box that they’re, they are all like this. And what you’re forgetting is that Thai, Australian, American, where we’re from, we’re all individuals. Yes. Is what we are. So there are a lot of cultural, facts here that, that influence the way people are.
[00:37:41] Brendan Cunningham: the background of the monarchy, the quite heavy presence of religion. the way just the. The economics of the country over so many years, the development of the middle class over the last 20 or 30 years, which has now come, but wasn’t there for before, et cetera. So many things influence what, the culture is.
[00:38:03] Brendan Cunningham: but the end of the day, the people, are individuals like in any other country, and that’s putting people in a box sort of tied people like this, I think is a, mistake people make. I’ll quickly tell you a story about this actually. When my cousin, part of my transition and thinking my change was, my cousin came here quite a few years ago, but he was walking around down seam in the middle of the city and he’s first time in Thailand.
[00:38:32] Brendan Cunningham: He’s looking around, he said to me, so tell me about the people. What, do they do? What do you mean? so just what do they do? What, happens on a regular basis in this country? I said, they, Monday morning, get up, go to work. Go home. They work in an office, a lot of them, not everyone. There’s different parts of the country.
[00:38:54] Brendan Cunningham: And then they go home after work. they do that usually Monday to Friday. They might go to the gym or to play badminton, go out to their friends after work during the week. And then on weekends it’s a lot of family time. It’s going to the cinema, it’s going bowling. And you look at, oh, the same as what we do in Australia.
[00:39:14] Brendan Cunningham: Yeah, pretty much. So the, we work at an office or wherever you work. Yeah. People across the world, who work are very much the same. They’re very, cult cultures are very different. But our coming to work, making money, et cetera, is very much the same. So I think when we walk into an office and say, tide people are like this, you’re forgetting that Tide.
[00:39:38] Brendan Cunningham: People are the same as Australian, American, everyone else. In terms of the way, there are a lot of cultural differences. But the need to show up for work, to perform well at work, to do well, to enjoy their job, to have fun with their colleagues. I think that’s global. And so if you go in with that mindset that’s my work environment, not that, things type people are shy.
[00:40:02] Brendan Cunningham: They don’t like to speak up, they don’t then box that. Put it away. Yeah. And just go in with the mentality that this is a global environment and it’s the way you behave that influences the way they behave.
[00:40:16] Scott Pressimone: That’s such a great point. I can also tell you to your point, whether it be owners here in Thailand or owners I work with, outside of Thailand, it is amazing how much the owner reflects on the company.
[00:40:28] Scott Pressimone: And I think some owners can be, take more of a victim mentality of, my team doesn’t do this, doesn’t do that. But if they have that victim mentality, I think that permeates through the company. If
[00:40:36] Scott Pressimone: they have the ownership mentality that permeates through the company. Yes. so to, to me, it always does start a little bit at the top.
[00:40:43] Scott Pressimone: Yes. Yes. And we had to take accountability for our own challenges or our team’s challenges. Exactly. Yeah. And that definitely ties into culture. Now. Now, one thing, I’m not pushing back on what you said. Absolutely. I a hundred percent agree about the individual. But one thing that I think might cause some of us to say things like Thai people is because
[00:41:04] Brendan Cunningham: to,
[00:41:05] Scott Pressimone: when I talk to my wife, my neighbors, all these other individuals in my life, in Thailand, the way the language is formed, it’s not individualistic.
[00:41:15] Scott Pressimone: If I ask my wife about something, she’ll say, oh, Thai people do this. She says ti she says it. Yeah. Because it’s back to
[00:41:22] Brendan Cunningham: I talk, people say a lot actually. As Thai people, let me explain this. We do this, but I think I really like what you’re saying because as much as everyone is often phrasing their responses or opinions on that,
[00:41:37] Scott Pressimone: They will all say slightly different things. Yes. So for instance, this type person will say, as Thai people, we don’t like X, Y, Z politician. Yes. But then guess what this other Thai person will say as Thai people, we, do like that politician. Yeah. And so it’s still an individual.
[00:41:52] Brendan Cunningham: Yes, and you’re right.
[00:41:53] Brendan Cunningham: So we’re both buried to Thai nationals and different people. Yeah, Exactly. They, yeah, we did have the conversation all the time where Hai people are like, this, Thai people are like that. it’s, I use it a good example of it’s a, an excuse or a cop out. Yeah. I can explain to my wife why I go and watch a football game and drink maybe too many more beers than I should have done.
[00:42:23] Brendan Cunningham: Yeah, come home. It’s just the way Australians are. Not every Australian’s doing what I’m doing. I just use that as that stereotype of Australians watch football, eat pie, drink beers. I’m an Australian, that’s why I’m doing that. But no, I’m, yes, I’m an Australian, but I like doing it and I use it. I’m Australian as an excuse for why I do it.
[00:42:48] Scott Pressimone: I say the same thing when I get impatient in traffic or in a long line. I say, oh, Americans, us Americans get really impatient when things are inefficient, right? Yeah. But, I’ll admit, after being here for so many years, when my parents visit or other individuals visit, I start to realize, oh my gosh, I’ve actually really adapted to, I’m a bit more patient these days, right?
[00:43:08] Scott Pressimone: Yes. and in any case, we, still have our, Australian roots or American roots or whatever, but, after a while you find a balance.
[00:43:18] Brendan Cunningham: It’s, in, I think it’s an old saying that it’s a, lot easier to make excuses than to change. So that’s what we do. And Thai people are like this, whether foreigners or Thai say it, it’s just a lot easier to say than the alternative of trying to find a way to improve the situation of make changes in yourself, et cetera.
[00:43:39] Scott Pressimone: Yes. speaking of generalizations, in terms of culture, there’s also generalizations in terms of, the different generations of individuals. And so if you bear with me, I, am curious if there are any general patterns that you see, as companies are continuing to grow and expand. They’re getting a new demographic of individuals in their companies.
[00:44:01] Scott Pressimone: The younger individuals that are internet native, for instance, are coming into the workforce. And in the field that you’re in, I’m sure that you’re, seeing a bit of that.
[00:44:10] Brendan Cunningham: Yeah.
[00:44:11] Scott Pressimone: And I’m curious. What you’ve seen change in terms of the types of candidates you speak with, the younger generation, maybe specifically in, in Thailand.
[00:44:22] Scott Pressimone: What have you seen? What’s, shifting?
[00:44:26] Brendan Cunningham: gen Z it goes without saying very different to Gen Y and extremely different to Gen X. Yeah. and similar, I find it similar to the cultural conversation. They’ve, grown up in a world that they’re looking at the world through different eyes.
[00:44:44] Brendan Cunningham: If, you grow up in, anywhere in Thailand, but let’s say the country areas of Thailand compared to Australia, you’re, looking at the world through very different eyes. Gen Z are looking at the world through eyes that have never known anything but the internet, mobile phones, and just technology in general.
[00:45:05] Brendan Cunningham: So they’re, growing up in a world that they only know that whereas, Older generations have grown up in a different world that, that have seen different things prior to the internet. I think obviously the internet was such a significant change in our life and our AI is further making that change that we can identify that as the changing point for the, generations.
[00:45:29] Brendan Cunningham: and so with that in mind, they, are a different type of person, a different type of employee, different expectations, but also bringing different things to the workplace. They, have different ideas, they have a different way of looking at things. it’s, I find it to be quite exciting, similar to when we talk about culture and you put things in boxes and say culture.
[00:45:53] Brendan Cunningham: People from this country are like this. I’ve seen a lot of rhetoric where people say, gen Z are like this, and here’s how you manage Gen Z and you need to. And similar to culture, don’t put ’em in a box. they’re, all different types of people. You need to ask them what they want. You need to ask them for the direction, what they’re looking for, and also understand them.
[00:46:18] Brendan Cunningham: We, we often look back and say, in my day, it used to be like this, that we used to do this. And if the generation that’s come through their parents have made a very strong effort to make sure they always had a mobile phone to make sure that they had computer access and make sure that they’ve had this wonderful, comfortable life, and then we look back and say, oh, in my day it was much harder.
[00:46:46] Brendan Cunningham: So we’re basically punishing them for the fact that we gave the wonderful battle. Yeah. So I think we just need to understand that times are different and they’re looking through different lenses and how do we utilize that? Different way to look on the world compared to what, we had. Just to segue away from that a little bit as well, the importance of tapping in.
[00:47:09] Brendan Cunningham: And I like to think I do quite a lot, I have a lot more senior people than me, say that have even reached retirement age that I’ve been very fortunate to meet mainly through the Chamber of Commerce and just catchups with them, to tap into their wealth of knowledge and different things that are happening and perspectives on things.
[00:47:30] Brendan Cunningham: So each of us at different generations are looking at the world through a different lens and make the most of that as opposed to challenging it.
[00:47:40] Scott Pressimone: I love that. And I’m just thinking again, it, it is so easy to say, oh, gen Z is this way, and I’m a millennial. And of course plenty of people will say, oh, when millennials enter the workforce, they expect this and that.
[00:47:52] Scott Pressimone: Yeah. And never, right? And yeah, everyone’s an individual. Everyone’s different. So point taken on that. but then also I think there’s the. They’re not good. They don’t show up one time. They don’t understand what they have. They’re too spoiled, right? These are all things that even if some of them are somewhat true or have variations of truth to them, it’s that what is that helping?
[00:48:14] Brendan Cunningham: Yeah.
[00:48:14] Scott Pressimone: And, instead saying, okay, how can you leverage
[00:48:18] Scott Pressimone: Their differences? And what I’m hearing from you is to actually listen to the generations Whether it be the older generations or the younger generations, rather than just rebuffing them. Yes. And that even ties into, you had mentioned networking, which we’re gonna talk about a bit as well, but, there’s, you mentioned Aus Champ, right?
[00:48:36] Scott Pressimone: The Australian Chamber, and I know one of the kind of groups or subcommittees to that is Next Gen.
[00:48:41] Brendan Cunningham: Yes.
[00:48:42] Scott Pressimone: Yes. You wanna explain what that is so people that don’t know?
[00:48:45] Brendan Cunningham: Yeah. Yeah. So that’s the development of the next generation as the, name. It says, Aus Jam’s very famous for sundowners as a networking event, and Sun Dams can be a little daunting.
[00:48:59] Brendan Cunningham: If you’re walking in there for the first time, in fact, I remember walking in there a long time ago, but walking in for the first time, it’s daunting. There’s over 300 people in the room. If you don’t know anybody, it’s, who do I talk to? Where do I go? What do I do? How do I break in to a conversation?
[00:49:16] Brendan Cunningham: It can be very daunting to walk into. Now, if you are somebody who’s less experienced, not only in networking, but in the workplace in general, that sort of daunting factor goes even further up. So creating a, the sub community subcommittee, but sub community where it’s open to everyone to attend, it’s, not limited to an age bracket.
[00:49:41] Brendan Cunningham: It’s not a young professional group where you’re people under this age, but it’s specifying that this is for a group of people who are on their way to the next step. Of management, of building, starting their own business, of whatever their intentions are for the next step. So it can be viewed as a different community to walking into sometimes a bigger community where suits and gray hair and things like that.
[00:50:10] Brendan Cunningham: And then the, suits or gray hair still come to the, extent of it as well. ’cause everyone loves to, I’ve, I’m gonna say never, but if that’s not true, rarely met a senior business community leader, not only Austria, but across the whole community. who isn’t willing to help the next generation come along.
[00:50:30] Brendan Cunningham: if they’re asked for help, can I have time? Can I sit down with you and can I ask you some questions? Very few of ’em. Will, say no. Say, yeah, what do you wanna know? Happy to help you.
[00:50:41] Scott Pressimone: Oh, I love that. I love that. And when you were mentioning the sundowners, I definitely recommend individuals take a look at the Australian Chamber events, look at membership and consider attending a sundowners is one option.
[00:50:51] Scott Pressimone: To your point, it can be daunting. I will say that people tend to love it because of the people in the community. People are very friendly despite there being a lot of people. but there’s also good food and good drinks at those events. And what I will say is, as you mentioned, NextGen and some of the other events might be a bit smaller.
[00:51:08] Scott Pressimone: Luckily, Australian Chamber still has good food and good drinks at those events too. Just, fewer people. So you can take that then a step that,
[00:51:15] Brendan Cunningham: that’s a signature of Australia Chamber commerce events. It’s great food, great drinks, and, great people PE people are very, even if it is, it, it, looks daunting.
[00:51:27] Brendan Cunningham: But while we’re on the topic, if, you’re going into any event for the first time, you happen to be by yourself, just try to find even someone on. Line of me, for example, and say, are you going to this event? And I, want to know at least one person and then I’ll take you in. I’ll introduce you. As soon as you meet a couple of people, you’re, away.
[00:51:48] Scott Pressimone: That’s Yes. Yes. I love that. What a great recommendation. And I will say too, yeah, we’ve talked about this a bit, but, it’s not a stuffy group, right? It’s not a stuffy group setting. Yes. in the, sundowners events, you’re gonna have more suit and ties and some more older experienced individuals.
[00:52:04] Scott Pressimone: But I’ve never felt that attitude of who are you to be talking to me? No. everyone’s very like this. If you make the eye contact and you approach a group shaking their hands, how are you? What’s your name? Yeah. There’s always a conversation to be had. Yes. Yes. And that brings us to the topic a little bit deeper on networking.
[00:52:24] Scott Pressimone: We talked about also, of course, there’s Australian Chamber, but Brendan, I see you like, not only have you held. Incredible and prominent positions with Australian Chamber. But you sent seem to go to a ton of events. And, you’re a high level individual. You I’m sure are very busy with your workday.
[00:52:42] Scott Pressimone: But you still attend at, attend, speak at, go to all these events in, Bangkok, right? And I think it’s an easy to have the excuse of I’m an owner, I’m busy, I can’t do that. They send their staff and they don’t go themselves. Yes. And I’m curious how you are able to make the time, but then also why you make the time To be involved in these communities.
[00:53:04] Brendan Cunningham: I, consider what, is now my network as one of, if not the most valuable asset that I have. it’s extremely value to me, valuable to me for multiple reasons. I’ll start with the ROI. So first I mentioned First start going to network, and I’m gonna say it was 15 years ago going into the first Oge event.
[00:53:26] Brendan Cunningham: And I was working, but just started in recruitment and. When I first started going, I was going regularly to a gym events and then coming back into the office and the company I was working for at the time, the boss said to me, I’m not sure are you, are you just going to these events to have a few drinks in a good time?
[00:53:46] Brendan Cunningham: I said, I am having a few drinks in a good time, but no, I’m not just going for that reason. Any sort of unsure if we fair enough, I’ll prove to you why I’m going. So I just set up a very simple spreadsheet, with a list of the contacts. Not every contact, but contacts that I’ll make I was making and then eventual invoices.
[00:54:07] Brendan Cunningham: So recruitment and kind of business that you can get a financial ROI eventually don’t walk into one networking event and come back thinking, okay, money’s rolling in. It takes time to build. but over the course of a year, I then presented when it was time to renew the membership. I then presented the.
[00:54:26] Brendan Cunningham: this ROI sheet, okay, here’s how much it costs for us to be a member, plus for me to attend these events. Here’s the direct result of the invoices that we were able to make because of the contacts I made. And it’s, as a rule, minimum 10 times the investment. for a business like the business that I’m in.
[00:54:49] Brendan Cunningham: It doesn’t apply to everyone. Not, everyone is making financial gains from being an o or any chamber member or going to networking events, but in my case, that did apply. So then the next one, which I find very highly valuable is the knowledge that you gain. I, can’t remember going to any event where I don’t go home and I usually will say to my wife, I’ll get home and she’ll ask me about the event and say, I learned this and did you know this?
[00:55:18] Brendan Cunningham: Or somebody told me this, and that. You people tell you things that. You wouldn’t have known if you didn’t go to that event, whether it’s a market lead. Do you know that this company’s coming into Thailand? No, I did not know that. Yeah. Do you know that this person’s moving from here to here? Do you know that this has happened?
[00:55:37] Brendan Cunningham: PE people are happy to tell you things. Says people are happy to share information, particularly if it’s something they think not many people know. I’m, this is my thing tonight. I’m gonna tell everyone
[00:55:46] Scott Pressimone: this, everyone gossip ups a bit, right? So, the market knowledge you can gain and then the different people are there.
[00:55:53] Brendan Cunningham: If you want to know what’s happening in real estate, say things like the, it’s a bit touchy. The casino project or the F1, proposal that’s happening there. There’s often people in the room who will have some insider knowledge if you’re interested. but about multiple topics. So the things you learn if you are open to talk with everyone and not walk, here’s my business card.
[00:56:19] Brendan Cunningham: Here’s what I do, here’s what I can sell to you. I, never do that. I walk up, hi. If you hear the accent, have an American, oh, you’re from Oh States. Great. What part of the states are you from? And you get into that conversation, what brings you here? You start talking about sport. If people are into sport, talk about gold if they know.
[00:56:37] Brendan Cunningham: Yeah. Go. so you just find conversations. You, build a relationship and you, basically make friends. Yes. and if that person who becomes your new friend one day happens to, Hey, I actually need your service. That’s great. I’m here for you. Yes. But otherwise, it’s just really building a network where you can learn a lot from it.
[00:57:00] Brendan Cunningham: And then even referrals. That person who’s now your new friend is talking to somebody else in the room. Do you know anyone who does this service? I do, actually. I could, I’ll introduce you to this person right there. Ah, so then the final thing is, yeah. Just that, Friend network that, you get from it.
[00:57:20] Brendan Cunningham: I love that I walk into not only events, but other chamber events, other different grand opening things or sometimes, on the sky train. Yeah. I bumped into someone I know quite well on the Sky train this morning. I got off the train. Hey mate. Ai. Yeah. We stopped and had a real good chat. So I, like having that network, that access to really good people.
[00:57:46] Scott Pressimone: I love it. I, think you touched on so many of the points that I’ve really always, some of the points I try to make to, to individuals that come here. Because when they say that they’re looking for that immediate ROI, they say, I attended that event. I got a couple cards. I didn’t turn it into any business.
[00:58:03] Scott Pressimone: I can’t really see the benefit. And you compare those individuals that do that, or like I said, send their team off, who then. Say, oh, I work for a self storage company. This is what I do. Yes. That’s not the way to lead a conversation. Yeah. And it seems like it’s a couple layers removed. Yes.
[00:58:19] Scott Pressimone: Whether it’s a later conversation where you eventually maybe do talk a little bit about work down the line Whether you join a subcommittee and you start talking to people there and getting to know them more in their services more because you’re interested.
[00:58:30] Brendan Cunningham: Yes.
[00:58:30] Scott Pressimone: or it’s someone that they know and they trust you, and then they introduce you to someone that could be a good, Yes. So it’s just, it just seems to your point, I know that you were able to make the case for why it’s worth it To go to events from an ROI perspective. But it’s a matter of, it’s not that direct.
[00:58:47] Brendan Cunningham: No. And not every, and not everyone can do it either. Yeah. So if you are only looking for the ROI, it may not ever be there.
[00:58:54] Brendan Cunningham: I have been fortunate enough that it has existed for me. Yeah. But if that’s all you’re looking for, you’re missing out on those other really important aspects that the, knowledge part that, the things that, that I learned through those conversations. I, just find that invaluable and like I said, the friendship part as well.
[00:59:15] Brendan Cunningham: And you never know when you need, people might be in one company and you’re not, sounds like you, you might be using them, but you know them through that company and there’s no way you’re ever doing business. And if you take the attitude, I’ve met that person, but they’re never gonna do business with me.
[00:59:32] Brendan Cunningham: So where’s the value? Then you lose, even we’re friends for five years, great mates sometimes play golf together. That person, Hey, I’ve got a new job. I need your business help today. Yes. Oh, okay, great. Yes. You just never know. Yeah,
[00:59:49] Scott Pressimone: absolutely. And this under, like, when you were talking about your staff and individuals that you recruit and things like this, it’s that understanding them as a person, right?
[00:59:58] Scott Pressimone: are they married? Do they have kids? are there kids trying to find a school to go to, right? Like it’s that give first and learn from them, right? Yes. That’s just so important. So if anyone wants to chat with me at an event, just know that Yeah. Gold is an important one. Yes, I’m a Bitcoin guy for sure.
[01:00:14] Scott Pressimone: So please understand that. If you want to know anything about that and you wanna get me going, talk to me about Bitcoin. Yes. but, but, the point is, it’s the stuff that people are passionate about, right? If you’re talking with them about things that they’re interested in and passionate about, that’s not always work.
[01:00:29] Brendan Cunningham: No.
[01:00:29] Scott Pressimone: And then maybe it loops back around to work.
[01:00:31] Brendan Cunningham: Yes.
[01:00:32] Brendan Cunningham: You’d remember when we caught up not wanting go having a coffee. I was very interested in the gold topic. Yes, For me, it’s more gold interest than the Bitcoin side. So I was asking you about the gold and about the prices and the, market, yeah.
[01:00:46] Brendan Cunningham: Yeah. And it’s something that I hear not only for personal interest, but you hear others talking about the, where they should be investing Yes. Or not If I don’t know much about a topic, you can obviously jump online and learn a lot, but I really prefer to just ask somebody who, I think knows Yeah.
[01:01:08] Brendan Cunningham: And get their opinion. Then you’re able to, combine it. I’ve, read this, but then I’ve asked these people about it and yeah. Once again, events, are just the best place to meet those people.
[01:01:20] Scott Pressimone: Great, point. we’ve run through a lot. What I am wondering if you can do for me, Brendan, is this was, this is a, been a long conversation, but if you had just one or two minutes or a few sentences to explain, and I get this is a hard thing to do, but how to be successful or some kind of general rules of how to find success in Thailand from the business perspective Or from the team building perspective. If you could just run through what is your general playbook or blueprint summary of the things that an individual can do to be more successful here?
[01:01:55] Brendan Cunningham: I think I’ll, focus just on the, hire real part. Yeah. ’cause it, the broader picture, can be, very difficult to nail down to, in terms of hiring your team.
[01:02:06] Brendan Cunningham: just be, to go through the processes as we’ve discussed. another referrals are another big part. If, you come in and you ask people, do you know anyone who does this? That’s, also a good way to find people. But hire, The, old, the concept of right people, right seats. Just, really, as you’re going through that process, sometimes we have a, tendency to hire someone because we need them now.
[01:02:35] Brendan Cunningham: And you, try to convince yourself in your mind that, okay, maybe not the right person, but I, it’s the person I need now. and maybe that’s is your, business need at the time. I can’t afford to wait for the right person. I’ll take the person who’s maybe 75% right. But if you’re in a position. To really wait and find that right person, then particularly those early hires, then do that.
[01:03:02] Brendan Cunningham: so right people, right seats. And then once you start getting those people in because you’re very new, be very genuine with them, you expect them to be genuine with you. So be genuine with them, with that knowledge. I really need your help guys. I know you’re coming in thinking I’m an oracle that’s built this business.
[01:03:19] Brendan Cunningham: I’m going to be very real with you. I’m hiring you because I need your help. so let’s do this together. and then the communication part. Here’s what’s in front of us. Here’s what, we’re building, here’s what obstacles we’ve just hit before you hear it from someone else I’m going to tell you.
[01:03:39] Brendan Cunningham: So really communicate and be honest along the way. and then the care factor you were saying to yourself about really just asking questions. I think getting to know and making sure that it is, people say we are building a family, we’re like a family. Whether you want to look at your office like a family or not is probably an individual thing as well.
[01:03:59] Brendan Cunningham: But, you spend so much time together, make sure that it does have that strong care factor to it as well. And probably the last thing, which I don’t think I’ve mentioned along the way, but and I’m going to say Thai people are like this, but it’s quite true. fun. the ook part of Thailand I think is one of the things that, that keeps us here as well.
[01:04:21] Brendan Cunningham: It is a good, fun place to be and a good that the people overall, while I am generalizing and stereotyping it is people have good hearts and it’s a good, fun place to be. So while there are gonna be stresses from work and business, just step back and remember to enjoy life a bit. ’cause we’re not here for long.
[01:04:44] Scott Pressimone: What a, great note to end that topic on. just because I was just thinking as you were saying this, I, again, have a couple of young children and my wife has so much fun with our kids. And I like, I’m a little bit more of a serious dad. I’m not like a disciplinarian or anything, but my point is that she’s just tickling them and doing all these things with them.
[01:05:04] Scott Pressimone: They’re six and eight years old. And they’re just having fun, like a group of kids all the time because sometimes I’ll the call the, hi, these are my three kids. Yeah. Or four kids. and, so I, I think that play flow and I, need to remind myself of that. So I appreciate that lesson is learn to have a bit of fun while you’re here.
[01:05:21] Scott Pressimone: Business matters. But if you have a good workplace where people can trust each other and you can have fun with one another You’re probably gonna be able to work even better together.
[01:05:31] Brendan Cunningham: Yeah.
[01:05:33] Brendan Cunningham: absolutely.
[01:05:34] Scott Pressimone: Great point. Now what’s, to close this out a little bit, Brendan, what’s one thing about Thailand?
[01:05:41] Scott Pressimone: And this can be personal, this can be professional, anything. But what’s one thing that you wish you had known sooner?
[01:05:51] Brendan Cunningham: I think I’ll go back to the, I just actually did it myself, the stereotyping. But the, saying type people are like this, or even considering yourself, knowing a lot about Tide.
[01:06:05] Brendan Cunningham: So Thailand’s like this, Thai people do this and stepping away from that mold and just, I’m an individual, they’re individuals. This is a company and it’s not Thailand, Australia or it’s, we’re all just individuals. Let’s treat each other like individuals. And taking away that, part of the, thought process, that’s, it’s still there.
[01:06:31] Brendan Cunningham: You need to be mindful of it in things like that, that happen with, monarchy, religion, et cetera. You need to be extremely mindful. Of how you communicate, how you deal with those type of topics. but in terms of the workplace, just treat everyone like an individual, I think is the best we’ve seen. I, wish I had really been in touch with, years before.
[01:06:53] Brendan Cunningham: I, I did get in touch with it. Yeah. Great. Great tip.
[01:06:57] Scott Pressimone: Now you’ve been incredibly generous with your time. I’m wondering though, Brendan, is there anything that we didn’t touch on or talk about today that you wish we had?
[01:07:07] Brendan Cunningham: I think we could talk for forever. Really. There is so much, in terms of hiring people.
[01:07:15] Brendan Cunningham: In terms of developing people. I, could talk about people, recruitment training and development, talent development. I, could talk about it forever. I think we, how about another podcast down the track? That, goes part
[01:07:31] Scott Pressimone: two. Totally fair. Let’s tease that. so we’ll have a part two down the road as well, Brendan.
[01:07:37] Scott Pressimone: Now with that said, let’s say that someone does want to pick your brain a bit. Learn from you. Yeah. what is the best way they can get in touch with you, or get in touch with the company, if they are in need of services and they’re looking to, again, expand their team in Thailand.
[01:07:53] Brendan Cunningham: Great. let’s start. The company website is consulting.aswhiteglobal.com. It’s quite a long web long website, so hoping you can put it on the screen at, the bottom. email is that same web domain. It’s just my name, [email protected]. LinkedIn to great way to contact me. the nature of what I do.
[01:08:17] Brendan Cunningham: I’m on LinkedIn every day, so send me a, message request. Put a little hello in there if you like as well. and I will connect with you and we can chat, start chat on LinkedIn first, or. We’ve talked about the networking and most Aus Jam events, if I’m in Thailand, you can find me here. I’m from in Vietnam.
[01:08:38] Brendan Cunningham: You can find me at the AustCham events here as well. So we go along to a networking event. Is Brendan here and hopefully someone does know me and they’ll introduce you.
[01:08:49] Scott Pressimone: Awesome. thank you so much again for your time, Brendan. Really appreciate it. It’s always a pleasure talking to you and like you said, we’ll probably do it again soon.
[01:08:56] Brendan Cunningham: Great. So then thank you for coming into the office. Thanks for inviting me to be on. I really appreciate it. Yeah, of course. Thanks. Thanks again. Thanks for the chat. Cheers. Cheers.
