Chokdee: It’s not about making good money at the very beginning of your career, but it’s more about how you learn to work with other people. Self-discipline is definitely the key. Deliver beyond what is expected out of your role. For international company to be successful coming to Thailand, they have to serve the local palette. Learn the local way. And just certain things to fit in the local context. But of course, keep the good things that you have.
One thing that I learned is that people are coachable if only they want to be coached. If they don’t want to be coached, don’t waste your time on that. Forget about the size of your organization. It’s about whether you can deliver what you promise from the customer point of view. That’s all that matters.
Scott: All right, so today I’m sitting down with Khun Chokdee Wisansing. Really happy to have you today, Khun Chokdee. Thank you so much for joining me.
Chokdee: Oh, the pleasure is all mine, Scott. Thank you very much for having me.
Scott: So I wanna give a brief introduction of who you are. You have been the COO or the CPO of some, of the biggest conglomerates here in Thailand, including AWC Central and Yum.
But I’ve also seen the other side of you, which is the smaller business side, because you also have a new small business, a relatively new small business. Can you explain that briefly?
Chokdee: Yeah, sure. I started off my career as a professional employee, working for banks, working for a company both in Thailand and, overseas.
Grew up my career in a corporate world until I become, at one stage, Chief Operations Officer with different company, with different organization. And then I became, a Chief People Officer as well. Now that I’m retired, it just happened, may last year that I have reached my, retirement age at 60.
Now I’m, free as a bird. But, I also try to, look for things to keep me occupied so I have, start to own a business. It’s a, small business. It’s a confectionary business, that, that keep me, going. And, most important of all is help me realize my dream about how I can help, develop younger generation.
Scott: Yes. And so that brings me to something that I’ve seen from you or the way that I look at you sometimes Khun Chokdee, is that I’ve seen you through the Australian Thai Chamber. Yes. I’ve seen you involved in NextGen, which is a subcommittee of Australian Thai. And, I see you as a bridge between the gap of sort of the young generation and the older generation, as well as a bridge between the gap of the, small business and the large business.
Because as you said, you had, a long experience working for very large companies, but you’re also involved in the chamber working with smaller companies and now having your own right. And then the other thing is of course, your, your education and everything and your experience has, I think a bridge between the Thai business, or the Thai way of doing business, but also the international or western way of doing business.
So that’s, I think the main reason I really wanted to have you on was because, I think there’s a lot of wisdom that you can share because you have that breadth of experience. So does that make sense?
Chokdee: Yeah. Yeah. Happy to share. What I have, done, over, over the years, If I may begin, I, I’m, born and raised here, in Bangkok, right?
And, has, always, a dream of becoming a white collar since I was a high school student. From there onwards, I went to study at, Thammasat University. I got my degree in, economics. And that’s, basic, basically prepare myself to become a, good, a white collar, worker. So after graduation, I went to a foreign bank, fulfill my dream, and then I realized that, being a white collar at the junior level, you don’t earn very much.
In order to become successful, to go up the corporate ladder, you need to do a lot of hard work and, basically prepare yourself to go up, the corporate ladder. Working in a large organization. There, there a lot of people in the organization. But how can you break through corporate ladder?
How can you climb up? For me, it’s all about having a good discipline, dedication, hardworking, that’s normal. I think, in order to be successful, we know people have to put in lot of hours and, hard work. On top of that, it’s about discipline, dedication, and, follow the direction that, that you receive.
Especially when you are, at a junior level. I later learned it’s not about making good money at the very beginning of your career, but it’s more about how you learn to work with other people. How you learn to develop yourself. With continuous learning approach, right? And, dedication on what you do.
And, there is no, no compromise in, in, that regard, right? Self-discipline is definitely the key. And, keep, deliver what is expected out of your role. And better than that, deliver beyond the what is expected out of your role, right? And in the later year, the financial reward will come.
This, is, what I believe.
Scott: And that really brings up, I think something you sometimes might see is people moving up the corporate ladder by job hopping or trying to move up that way. So it sounds like you’re more of a proponent of the money comes later. Maybe don’t think of that first and try to get the short term wins of, I, I got a few extra thousand baht in my salary.
Maybe that short term thinking,
Chokdee: There were times in my career that I look at people, job hopping and get their salary increase and later on until I became a chief people officer of AWC at the time, I, I have seen many younger people adopt that approach. And it’s proven that it’s not sustainable. Because, job hopping, let’s say if you stay with, within a job for less than a year or two, right?
Do not have enough time to achieve, something great. For me I’m, I, can speak from the bottom of my heart. No, that’s not the right way. You do, eventually you have to show that, you have perseverance. You have, gone through, up and downs in your career. Sometime it’s not because of you, but, sometime it’s a economic situation.
The market condition, when there’s a Gulf War or when there’s a COVID, economic situation go up and down. And, once you have gone through those, easy time, tough time, difficult time, at least it’s something that is stick. It will always stay with you. Nobody can take that away and you can be, confident, when you talk about, what you have achieved in, your career.
Scott: Yeah, that was exactly what I was gonna bring up and ask you about is that with job hopping, I can see people benefiting in a way, short term on the resume and saying, I work for this company, or I worked in this division. So from a resume, resume perspective, at the surface it may look okay, but then to your point, you’re probably not doing a lot of change management or actually having a big impact in six months or a year.
And so when you’re now interviewing for another job or trying to do something else, you probably don’t have as much experience at that deeper level. And I think we’ve all interviewed individuals where you start asking them some deeper questions and they don’t have those deeper answers.
So it sounds like you need a bit more time.
Chokdee: Yeah, Totally agree with you. Growing someone career, it’s not quick, not a quick things, Good things, take times, And, not only that, the result that you have to deliver, according to your role, but what about, working relationship. How do you, what kind of relationship do you have with your peers?
Yeah, with your subordinate, or with your superior, A successful professional, once they grow up the ladder, you can tell that there, there will be a large group of people who used to be their subordinate behind them, right?
Yeah. When you go into, networking or business event, you’ll see, leaders who, are admired by a large group of people who can give, opinion on certain thing and people would listen and follow.
Whereas, if you. Keep changing from one company to another company. You will not have a large, a group of people, behind you who can talk positive thing about you. Okay. I’m glad I’m not one of those. I do believe I do have, friends and colleague and ex colleague who, who can speak up for me, if I need that.
Scott: It’s interesting, and I hope you don’t mind me mentioning this, but we were talking before about now that you, are retired and maybe you’re doing some level of consulting and other things like this, it’s that you now have that network to where you know who needs help or you know who to trust. You essentially seem to have that following or those people in different places that, are helpful to you at this stage and you’re probably helpful to them as well. The, it’s essentially, as you said, playing the long game.
Chokdee: It is a long game. It’s a marathon, definitely. It’s not a quick dash.
Scott: Yeah, absolutely. The main sections that I wanted to make sure we talk about today, systems, people and mindset, because I think you’re definitely a systems minded individual.
You clearly care about people given the course, the positions you’ve been in. And on the mindset side, I think it’s back to that positivity and outlook. And so I wanna definitely touch on that a bit as well. But on the systems side, I’m curious if we take the perspective of companies that are expanding into Thailand, right?
So these large, companies that are saying, I want to see how I can hit the Thai market. I’m curious, have you seen what’s worked well for companies as they’re expanding their operations into Thailand or trying to service the Thai market. And if there are any cases of things that haven’t worked well or any failures that you’ve seen as these companies are trying to expand into Thailand.
Chokdee: Yeah. Let me break this, topic into, two areas. I think for a company, in general, to work well. That, that is, one part, and the other part I will talk about how as international company can come to Thailand and operate, successfully here. My thought about that, so that, a separate part.
Now, let’s go back to the first part in my, career. I happen to learn, from one book, but I’m sorry, I, it’s my bad. I don’t remember, from where it is, but I can say it’s not my, there are three s, which is very important. First, as a company, you have to have a strategy. Because the strategy will define the direction of the company moving forward.
The strategy will define what is, what are we the requirement to make that strategy. So number one, the company have to have a clear, strategy, what the company want to have, right? Then in order, to make that strategy happen successfully, you have to have a system. So this is a second s, right? Running with system will help, make sure, will help avoid all the possible risk, right?
Things run with a, system and you eliminate the human, error part, because you have a good system. And the third is, the structure. So once you have the. Stretch, strategy. You apply the system and now you can design the structure of the organization to fit in, how to deliver the strategy and how to, make good use of the system you have.
Now, when it’s come to structure, then it’s about people, right? You put the, the right person, to the right job, put the right man to the right job. And, each and everyone, each and every member of the organization, they have to know exactly you, what are their roles? Why are they there?
Scott: Yeah.
Chokdee: And once they know clearly what are their roles, then they can start thinking of, them, what do they have to do on a daily basis to fulfill the requirement of their role? Okay. At the end of the day, no, nobody, no one is, bigger than the organization. And now I can say, Who coined this one?
It’s Alex Ferguson. He said that no, no one is, the bigger than the team. Everyone has the role to play no matter who within the organization. And you just have to make sure that you fulfill the requirement of your role. It would be even better that you extend, you expand your role and you help the organization, help your colleague, help your subordinate, or even help your superior to deliver their role successfully.
And you are, a helper, to them as well. So if everyone in the organization completely fulfill their role, expand their role to help others to fulfill their roles, wow, what a great company. What a great company that we would have. I think this is, what I learned and I think it’s, important for a, a company to be successful To have this. Now to, should I move on to the second part?
Scott: One, one just comment I wanted to make on that is you’re mentioning how important it is to be clear on what the roles are. And I’m curious if you’ve seen this before, but when I think roles are not very clear, I think everyone tends to feel that they’re doing a favor for somebody else, And, so then, people will do the thing where they’ll think, oh, I’m doing that for this other person.
And I, it seems, I’m curious if you’ve seen that before though, where there’s tension because people didn’t make the roles clear. The relationship between different departments clear and then so everyone’s living in this middle zone where it’s vague and no one really knows. Have you seen that happen before?
Chokdee: I think a. will define a structure, will help eliminate, the issue that you just mentioned. I, I learned in my career, the importance of, having a clear, defined role. But, okay, let me step back one more time before you can define which role to have within the organization you, you have to, have a good, picture of what your, organization, how you want it to look like first. By all means it not necessarily to follow structure of how the organization. You can create your own. This is at the liberty of the leader how you want to have the organization the way you want, right? It doesn’t have to be high hierarchical. Yeah. It doesn’t have to be too flat. As well. Define, your own according to your business need.
It also, it doesn’t mean that, let’s say I, I graduated from economy. It doesn’t, I don’t have to be only economist or someone who is, I dunno. And, a computer engineer from computer engineer, it doesn’t mean, he or she has to only perform that role. If he has other interests in other, functions.
Let’s so be it. I said all this all the time in my mind, I’m thinking of my, my, my personal company that I owe. Now my nephew, who is, a graduate from computer science and now he’s, operation manager, producing, candies. My, accountant is, a law graduate and she’s doing my accounting. Okay. I think that come later, but it’s about defining the structure.
You, you find the person who fit in the role within your, the structure that you decide. You don’t have to follow anyone. You can combine role. For example, in my organization now I have, one person who in charge of, procurement and stock management. And that’s a primary role.
And the secondary role is sales.
So people can have a primary role and secondary role as well, I can talk a lot more on this one, but, in order to avoid the gray area that you just mentioned, first, if you define the role clearly, it will help eliminate the gray area. And secondly Yeah.
If that happen. Again, is about the sense of, ownership, sense of belonging, teamwork that the, leader will have to, not sure that, promote that.
Scott: Got it. Yeah. So I’m definitely gathering, there’s not one right answer to any of this, but it sounds like having the strategy and having the structure and, even if you’re creating your own structure that hasn’t been done maybe before, or it’s a different hybrids as you mentioned, having primary function and, secondary functions.
It’s that, at least everyone knows what they are. It sounds like that transparency and visibility sounds very important. Now again, going to the, international expansion sort of thing. What do you say on that side of it when it comes down to companies that are trying to expand into Thailand?
Maybe they don’t understand Thailand well enough, but I’d love to hear your opinion on that.
Chokdee: This is, a great topic because I have a hands-on experience, at many occasions, to work with, international company and, bring them to Thailand. I think, the, successful case that I have, witnessed, with my own eyes, I think I can talk about, KFC, for example. KFC is, our leading brands, here in Thailand. At one stage in my career, I had a privilege, to work for, Yum! Restaurants International. I was a Chief Operation Officer here. And, I’m very proud, to work for that organization. Such a great brand. Good reputation worldwide. And here in Thailand is a well established brand, Thais love, KFC, fried chicken. How is a success story of how a successful international brand, can operate here? If you go to, KFC in Thailand, you will find some local dishes. I think, last week they just launched, Khao Pad Krapow, which is a popular Thai dish.
Of course you don’t, see that, in any other KFC in the whole wide world. Only in Thailand. Just one example. But, I think, the audience know that KFC had many, product many menu, adjusted, to the local. So the great story is for international company to be successful, coming through that they have to, serve the local palette. Learn the local way. And adjust whatever, adjust certainty to fit in the local context. But of course, keep, the good things that you have. KFC is a world class operation system. Keep that. And, implement that kind of world class, operation system here in this market.
The Thais will learn the world class, standard, learn how to operate in a systematic way. But when it’s come to adjust to the local, customer requirement, you should have that flexibility. Should have flexibility. Another successful story that I could tell, I would share from my own experience, is as, Back in food. It must have been almost, 20 years ago when, I helped, a Thai, company, a central restaurant group at the time, to introduce a Ramen brand here in Bangkok. Traditionally ramen noodle serve in Japan is coming a big bowl. Yeah. And, we managed to convince the, Japanese Ramen brand to allow us to serve a smaller portion.
My argument was at the time was that because Thai, we always like to, we, have, we eat in a much smaller portion Compared to the us, compared to, Japan. With that argument. I managed to convince, the brand to allow me to serve a smaller portion. Actually is a children size for Japanese.
And I told them, look, I promise that the revenue, will not drop, in, restaurant language we call the average, ticket, sales per, customer. I guarantee it will not drop because I know for a fact that Thai will not order only a ramen, but they will order side dishes.
Scott: Yes.
Chokdee: Because Thai love side dishes. Whereas, in Japan, in the traditional way, people will have their ramen, and maybe they’ll have a deep-fried dumpling. The user maybe. But Thai, we like to eat many other side dishes. So with the smaller size. Children’s, Japanese children’s size to tie with the ticket of the sales was, met the expectation and they, it went beyond the expectation too.
This another good example of how international brand come to operate in Thailand, adjust to the local, consumer behavior and become successful. Yeah.
Scott: Excellent. So I guess if you’re coming in, and I think it’s easy, if you’ve had a lot of success around the world to, believe that you’re just gonna have success, there can maybe be some level of arrogance in thinking it’s just gonna work in Thailand.
Whereas if you instead adapt to the local, palette and way of eating and things like this, it sounds like in this case you can do the same, if not better. So that’s, great. Now I’m curious then about other adaptations, because some people that come to Thailand and some companies might come across Thai time.
Thai time. Okay. So maybe not necessarily, always on time to meetings or always on time to events, things like this. That’s what we call Thai time. Now, I’m assuming that doesn’t work in larger organizations. And to be honest, when I go to some of these bigger companies, it seems that everyone seems on time, my meal gets to me on time, things like this.
So I’m curious if you have an opinion on that. And one other thought, that comes to mind is. I think I have more tie time than you do nowadays because you are someone who even just organizing this interview, you, are moving forward. You’ve got your plan, you’ve got your calendar, and you’re very, you’re more on time than I am.
I can tell you that much. So, I’m curious, what is your opinion on this and do you have any, advice to, let’s say the smaller business owners or the larger ones that, that are trying to adopt to Thailand and they’re noticing, some cultural differences. Do you think that with SOPs and with standardization, you’re able to achieve the same level that you can achieve in other countries?
Chokdee: It’s a cultural thing. You’re right. It’s a, it is a cultural thing. I think if you talk to, people like myself, you, you experience, certain level, of, time, my time management, right? I think if you talk to people in, up country in Thailand, they operate totally different. But I, I, I wouldn’t say, what is right or what is wrong, is different way of living, is how they’ve been, brought up. How they have grown up within that environment. Whether, is time the most important thing, like we have to give priority. Or you were born in a rural area, when you are, you were 24 hours, have different priority.
I was fortunate to be, exposed, to diverse culture, western culture, eastern culture, north, south, et cetera. So I have developed my own way of time management, right? Definitely I wouldn’t say my is better than others.
But it’s my, my, my way of managing my term. Which I would say it would start from, if people want to learn from me, then happy to share.
I think it’s more about, respect.
It’s more about respect. And first and foremost be before you can respect others. Do have to respect yourself first. I respect myself. And, how, do I do that? Is because, I want to achieve so many things within 24 hours, within seven days, I learned that the only way that I can achieve those many things is to put things on calendar.
Now, we, in the old days, we have to carry a diary. And now with the convenience of mobile phone, you can put everything on your mobile phone. I have trained myself to make good use of, calendar, in my phone. Because I respect myself. I know, that I can predict, myself what gonna happen within the course of the day or within the course of the week.
Everything is in, in, in my calendar. And I respect myself to follow that. And of course, then come when I respect others that, bye-bye, be on time. Or if you really can’t, you have to let people know, in that ones that did that you really can’t, how, allowed you’re gonna be, et cetera, et cetera, is, more about respect.
And I know there are many Thais who are like me as well.
Who. Who respect themselves, respect other and, like to be on time.
Scott: But yeah. Yeah, I guess I’m just thinking from the perspective of some owners that might have experienced it and not know how to deal with it, not knowing how to attract the right people that, that, essentially are very professional and can do that.
But at the same time, I guess the lesson I’m hearing from you, correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s lead by example, right? So respect yourself, respect your employees, do these things, and you’re creating a culture of that. Is that fair to say?
Chokdee: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah, back to the point that, create your own things. For me, I think each and every one of us, can create your own life, can create your own structure, can create your own way of living, can create your own time, create your own dream and make your own.
Because at the end of the day. Nobody gonna give you, you can achieve, what you want by creating your own.
Scott: Yes. I love that. I love that. Which, brings me into the kind of the topic of talent and people, because again, people seem central respecting people, attracting the right people, building something with the other people on your team to make something bigger than yourself, right?
So people is a big part of this. But I will share that there seems a bit of a conflict. I’m sure this always happens, but there’s a little bit of a conflict between the younger generation and the newer generation. And as I said before, I feel that you’re a bit of a bridge because, as you’re retiring from your career, still obviously still involved in a lot of companies and a lot of initiatives, but at the same time, there’s this younger generation coming in that wants to do things differently.
And so since you’ve seen both sides of that, What is your opinion on this? How do we find this mix to where, we’re leveraging the younger, energetic generation, but we’re also taking the wisdom from the older generation?
Chokdee: I’m very passionate about this topic. Scott, really this is this drive me going each day is this topic.
I’m, truly passionate about this. Why? Because when I look at what is happening in the world, what happening in, in, Thailand, at the end of the day, across generation, we will have to coexist. We cannot have one generation without other generation, or we have to coexist. Now, how can we coexist, peacefully and successfully?
And everyone, get what they want. I think, all, the generation been there, done that, right? Unfortunately, there are some who, doesn’t give much credit, to the emerging of the younger generation, which, I’m feel sorry for that. But at the same time, I’ll also see younger generation who disregard whatsoever what the past generation have done and have achieved.
I, but I don’t think, the world should, build that way, right? For those, who are elder. I, realize, myself every day that, my time is getting less and less. And I’m not saying this in a sad way, is. It’s a natural thing. I should start counting down, already, because I’m, 61, this year, right?
And I’m not gonna be there another 60 year. So it is time to, pass on to the next generation and make sure that they will, be, perform better than what Baby Boomer or what Gen X have done. It should be about helping them make sure that they’re on the right path and they want, they, they will perform better than what baby Boomer gen has achieved. On the other side, younger generation be mindful that one day you’ll be old. As well. One day you will be, in 30 years you will be, old and there will be another, younger generation, coming to replace you. I think it’s about respect, right? And we have to coexist. It’ll be best if we can coexist in cool harmony and respect each other the way they deserve.
That the older generation, they deserve to be respect because what they have, all the knowledge and and experience that they have accumulated is. It must have worth something. It cannot be garbage. It must have worth something. Look at the way, there’s a world we are living in. Look at Thailand.
We want it to be, but it’s not bad. No, it’s not garbage. So keep them the credit that they deserve, but at the same time. Elder generation have to listen because the world will belong to the younger people sooner or later. And we, it will always belong to the younger generation afterwards and afterwards also.
And now I must say that younger people now, actually, you are much better than when I was at your age, because now you have technology to help, right? At my time, if I want to learn something, I have to, go to class. I have to go to library. I have to read books. Now, you, you have, you don’t have to go to library anymore Now you have knowledge at your fingertips.
Now you have AI. So this generation. At the service. You are much smarter, much more efficient, but at the same time, don’t, please don’t, too, don’t be too much, confidence in what you have. Because the class is never full, right? If, you live your life, with, half empty, then you can always, learn more and be even, better.
I think I would love to see, we all live, coexist, respect each other. Listen to each other. Don’t disregard, anyone. Because one, if you start with, respect, then, I think then, that’s the way we, should, live together. Respect each other. Learn from each other. I, don’t think that, being older, meaning that I know better. That’s wrong.
That’s, that’s that, no, that’s wrong. Especially in, today context where technology is so advanced. But, no older gener, no any single, older generation. No better than ai, though. No way.
Scott: So yeah, it’s interesting the challenge flipped from, to your point, you had to seek out the knowledge to now we’re overwhelmed by knowledge.
Now it’s actually hard to figure out where to focus because we’re bombarded with new information all the time. Yeah. Now something that I’ve seen, I know you’re involved with is I think a lot of people approach you and, for mentorship for things like this, but something I’ve heard from you in the past is that while you definitely don’t have this push mentality, you pull, people come to you, right?
But then additionally, I’ve heard you say before that you learn from the younger generation, right? So is that part of the reason that you’ve mentored people before? ’cause it goes both ways.
Chokdee: Yes. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I, many years back I did my, coaching, lesson and, that, opened my eyes the way how I approach thing.
At that time, I did not know, what coaching is all about. I just wanted to be able to communicate with my teenager kids. So this is like 10, 10, 10 years ago,
Scott: right?
Chokdee: But once I graduated from, that, coaching classes, I really enjoy u using the coaching technique, not only to help other people, but to help me get into, other people as well to, compare, communicate with other people as well.
One thing that I learned is that people are coachable if only they want to be coached. If they don’t want to be coach, they’re not coachable. don don’t waste their time on that.
Scott: Now, a bit of a change of gears. I think that another topic that we mentioned, AI and the world is changing very quickly, right?
And I’m curious if you have any thoughts on stability. And the reason I say this is because sometimes people think of a large company as being large and stable. I’ve got my good set job, I’m good to go. And then some people think smaller businesses are less stable, right? They’re changing all the time.
They’re dynamic. They might be able to move quickly, but they might also fail. I’m just curious. With AI coming in, I think we’re seeing sometimes both large and small organizations needing to shift, right? Sometimes needing to downsize, sometimes growing, right? They’re going back and forth. And I’m just curious how you think of stability.
Like how is it if someone wants to keep their job, if they want to excel and be seen, do you have any recommendations for them in times of uncertainty about how they can have that not be worried about their job all the time?
Chokdee: I’m a strong believer of stability because, people need to be, secure.
But at the same time, we all know that change is constant. We all know that as well. How. Do I apply the two? concept? I think change is constant. We all know that. Especially, in business environment, you have to be able to adjust, quickly, right? Being nimble, and, in order to, respond to the change in the business environment.
But in order to make that change, I believe you need to have a stable team to the, to, deliver that. I highly recommend to go back to the first three, as I mentioned, the strategy, the system, the structure. I would this, I would design the structure, especially for, SMB business to have a very lean, structure. My own, company.
I kept it as 10, 10 staff. Only 10. These are the core, member of the company. These are the, the people who I will look after, but make sure that their wellbeing, look after and they will grow. And we, if we success together. So by having a lean structure, I manage to keep it, stable. For the change or, when thing happen, then I look for possible outsourcing or adding part-time, right?
But the quality team has to be solid, stable. Know each other well, trust each other, can talk openly and freely to each other regardless of under order, or. People we did, I try to keep it as flat as possible and everybody can, speak up their mind and make great recommendation, for, the better of the company.
By the way, the slogan, the tag line of is about a better living for all. We are there to make a better living for all. And for that reason, every member of my organization can speak up if they believe is make a better living for all. It has to be for all. Not only for one person or for the customer or for the shareholder.
It is including supplier, business, partner, ev, everyone. So I want to make sure that everyone. In the organization embrace the idea of we are there to make a better living for now in order to manage the change. Once you have your core team, you respond to the change strategy that I use is, what can we outsource, what can be, how can you hire a part time, to do a certain task?
So this is how I balance between stability within the organization and, to manage the change environment.
Scott: That reminds me back of, we were talking before about it’s this slow path. Let’s say that it’s working within an organization. You were saying before, don’t just be looking at the salary. Go slow and steady, right?
And the money comes later. And it sounds like your approach between the smaller business is similar in the way that it’s slow and steady. Don’t overinvest and hire 50 new employees. You have that core. And then expand through, as you said, outsourcing and part-time employees to build that up.
But then to your point, now it’s stable for those core employees that have proven themselves. And it sounds like too, I think you, you brought up the fact that since it’s smaller number of core employees, they might need to wear a couple of hats.
Chokdee: Yep.
Scott: Right?
Chokdee: Yep.
Scott: But as if they have their primary and secondary roles and everyone knows what those roles are, then then of course everything can be filled.
Right.
Chokdee: Let me share this for those, who are small, company, small enterprise, believe me, is only you who know that you are small. But when you go to talk to other people, they don’t. No one has any idea whether you are small or you are medium, or even they, if they have a perception that you’re small because you show them that you’re small, even they have a perception that you’re small.
They don’t know how small, tiny. Or this small, or that small. People don’t know. It’s how you portray your position. This is a time for younger generation. Start your own. If you have a good idea. Don’t be afraid. Don’t feel less confident because you’re small. No one know how small you are. They always think you are bigger than, that you actually, believe me, but, it’s all about how you portray yourself.
Do you speak with confidence? Do you know about your product? Do you know what you are doing? Have you thought, it through? Have you thought it through? You have a If you can provide the answer that the customer want. If you can provide the answer that financial institution want. If you can find the answer, of a larger company that, looking for solution, if you can provide that. They don’t care that you are small or big, but you are, you can solve their problem.
Scott: I’m curious if you have an opinion on this, but to your point, they don’t know whether or not you’re small. I’m curious whether or not it’s even necessarily bad if you’re small in that I’ve seen some smaller organizations, benefit by being small, right?
And I think one thing that I’m curious if you have an opinion on is some people I think try to fake looking bigger than they are. And I don’t think that’s what you’re talking about, right? Because they don’t know that you’re small. But what I mean is some people say, oh, let’s make a big company website that looks like a big building and it looks like it has all these staff.
And I personally would believe that’s a disadvantage. ’cause you’re trying to be something that you aren’t. Versus if you’re smaller, you might be more nimble, you might have more of a personal touch. You might have, to your point, you’re not scared to say that you have 10 employees.
If I’m ordering candy for a big event or for a, whether it’s large or small, I don’t dislike the fact that it’s 10. I don’t wish that you said you had 50 employees. ’cause to me, I care about the product.
Chokdee: It’s about whether you can deliver what you say. Can you deliver or not. If you can, then, regardless of what size you are, but you can deliver, right. At the agree price as a agree quality and as a agree quantity, you’re good. Forget about the size of your organization. It’s about whether you will be deliver, what you are, what you promise. That’s all matter from, the customer point of view. Or even financial institution. If you have to ask for loan, whether you can pay back according to what has been agreed in the loan agreement.
That’s all it matter. ’cause bank are there, to make money as well from borrower, right? So it’s, again, it’s about you respect yourself, you respect your other, if you say you can, pay on time, you pay on time. If you say you going to deliver full on time, you just do that. And that’s how. How, you grow, how you learn and grow.
And your developer, of course, if you fail to deliver that there’s no future.
There’s no future, right? Which come to the point that, yes, small organization because you are nimble. I got an order, in November. 7,000 pieces are lollipop, and we deliver. We put everyone together. Because we are so small, we are nimble and people, we have trust each other.
We have a good, team. We do beyond what is expected out of our role. Because at the end of the day, we are measured by the result. KPI mean, nothing at the end result have to be delivered. The end result is 7,000 pieces of lollipop have to deliver on certain date, certain time. We do what it. Smaller organization, you are so nimble that you are not limit to only eight hour, nine hours working.
Do not limit only to office hour. So if we have to stay, 10 o’clock, 11 o’clock, midnight, one o’clock, so, be it. And I’m sure, this will resonate to many of our audience who are, a small entrepreneur.
Scott: This actually brings me to a bigger question more about you, is that why put yourself through this, right?
Because there’s a lot of stress that goes along with delivering like that, right? And my, given your career, I’m assuming you didn’t need to start a business now. So can you tell me the background behind why you decided to start Candy Crush? Why you, are still doing it today, what you’re trying to achieve with it?
Gimme that whole perspective because again, it, doesn’t seem easy.
Chokdee: Okay. Happy to share. Happy to share. But, I can assure you I was not, stressed. I don’t stress easily. I hardly stress. That’s, one cool thing. A Candy Crush is a confectionary business. We have two, retail shops, one at the Siam Center, in Siam Square area, and the other one at the Icon Siam.
So that, that are two retail shops. And in addition, for retail, business, we do, a B2B business as well. We make candies, we make lollipop for, a company that they want to have some giveaway or souvenir or even like a brand building exercise to put their logo on, our candy products.
Scott: Yeah.
Chokdee: Now why, I adopt this business? First and foremost, I think eating candy is, is make people happy. I think it’s, it is, I’m, I want to be in a happy business. Of course, I cannot do it alone, so I have to build a team. And it just happened that my, daughter, my niece and nephew, they’re about similar age, 22, 23, 24.
They just graduate from, that university as well. It’s a good, for me, it’s a good opportunity, for this younger generation, to learn, how to do the business. And I have to play a little, play some tricks in order to allure them to work in this, business because, they were thinking of going to work, larger company, different, organization, et cetera.
So I use some trick. I won’t tell them. I use something to make sure that they come and work here and that they stay. And not only, it’s not only about paying high salary, but giving them responsibility. I wish I, I think, younger people, are craving for having a responsibility, on, certain things on their own and make sure that, they learn and grow as well.
They might not know, explicitly that I’m there to teach, because I’m not telling, but I’m more like a, coach and help them learn and grow. Learning the business, learning how to, own, own the business. Yeah. How to do things, how organization work, et cetera, et cetera. So, it’s about. First is about bringing happiness, more happiness to this world.
Second is about look after the people, who already within the, doing the business, make sure that, they look after, they learn and grow and they develop. And with my daughter, niece and nephew, coming into workforce, they learn how to do the business from the very, bottom part. All these, I enjoy doing it as no stress.
Scott: You just mentioning they do it from the bottom up. It’s something too that you’ve mentioned that you. Are still involved at all these levels. We’ve talked before about how, I think in your house, how you are the fixer. You fix the light air, you screw in the new light bulb, you fix some things around the house.
And it sounds like you’re also very involved in the business too. I think you were saying you sometimes make deliveries on your own as well.
Chokdee: Yeah, I, have done that. I have done that. Yeah. Yeah, Sure, sure.
Scott: So do you have any, is that part of your philosophy? Is that just how you operate? Is that how you operated in, some of your other roles to where, you weren’t too good to do something lower than you?
Is that just how you operate?
Chokdee: No, I, like the way you say it. Yes. I’m a strong believer than no one is, too good, for doing certain things. I, definitely, I enjoy doing it. I, like to have my, hand dirty, hand dirty if, If need to be done. I, it’s just me. I just enjoy, I just enjoy it.
The other day, I, have a chauffeur to drive, at home, and to do the deliver, candy from the factory to the shop. It just normal that he can’t do it. 365 days, there will be his pay off his sick, leave his vacation. I can choose either to pay someone else to do it, a third party.
But at the same time, I think, and then what I’m doing, I’m sitting at home watching tv. I think, might as well do, it myself. Is a good exercise, a good bonding with my people, my team that, yeah, if he can do it, I can do it as well. That’s all the thing. I think, it’s a part of the leadership, quantity that I have developed.
You lead by example. You, get your hand dirty. If needed. Yeah. And in my career, I have, been known, with my team that, when dirty work, need to be done. Yeah, me as a leader, I will be there with, with them. I love the work, but, no one is, too good, for their job.
Scott: Yes. Good point. Now, I’m, that also ties into things like credentials, right? Because I can’t help but think. Some people when they’re going through university or they get some fancy degree, they might feel a little too good to work, right? Because they just want to go through a certain path. And I’m curious if you have an opinion on that of number one, again, going back to AI and some of these other things with the knowledge and the way knowledge is shared, changing, How do you think of degrees now?
Is it still, would you still recommend people getting degrees, let’s say in the coming years? But then also if they do get degrees, do you have any beliefs, on whether or not they should be doing anything else or if the degree is enough?
Chokdee: By all means. I’m not saying that, the approach that I, live my life is the correct way.
I’m no one to, say that it’s just a different way, different style. There will be, people who, can afford to pay somebody else to do the job. That, of course, if you choose that path, you are in your own right. You can, pay, for a driver. You pay for a pub plumber, you pay for the electrician to do the job.
Everyone has a, right to, to live that path as well. But I have, I just chose to be on a different path, whereas whatever I, can do it myself. I will try to do it. I’m not success. It doesn’t mean that I’m successful with every case. Yeah. There are cases that I have. It beyond, my skill or beyond my hand, or maybe I am short of, necessary tool and things like that, then I have to, to hire someone to do that.
Now, I think moving forward, we’ll talk about education. In the western world, you give importance to, a skill, worker, right? Develop skill, whereas in Thailand, it has always been, about, pushing younger people to university, to get a degree. And now, we see more and more important, of, skilled workers.
I don’t want to, to contradict myself to the mainstream, but I think it’s worthwhile, to realize that, we are, we have a big shortage of skilled labor in, this market. And it would be helpful if we have more, people who study mechanic woodwork, electric electricity electrician, and plumbing will, et cetera, et cetera.
Hopefully one day, the earning level, will turn the other side. Actually it’s already is. I’m sure it’s already is. The earning, level is getting more and more, now, on the technician side. People start to make a, good learning, already, and I’m sure, moving forward, a blue collar worker, will be, is an important part, crucial part for the economy, for economy to grow, and develop.
Scott: Yeah, it’s very interesting how it shifted too, from AI is gonna take your jobs as the, of the blue collar workers or whatever to, you should learn to code. And that it’s flipped. And now it’s very interesting that it’s going the other way. And it’s to say, who’s gonna make sure something gets fixed?
Who’s gonna help me build something? Who’s gonna, right? And you really need that skilled labor. Sometimes it’s the, skilled hard labor, right?
Chokdee: There’s no point if you graduate, become a civil engineer. But you don’t understand what the carpenter or the plumber, or the construct, of labor are doing.
Scott: Now, I want to pivot a little bit to outlook now because I’ll admit that I’ve heard a bit more negativity in the last year or two. Understandably. I think a lot of companies are struggling. Sometimes the economy, there’s a lot of uncertainty. I’m talking more globally, right? But still, even in Thailand. There’s just some tension of what, what’s next, what’s gonna happen.
And I’m just curious, I know neither of us know what’s gonna happen, but how do you think about the future? How do you think about the opportunities? Do you think that there’s good things to come to the world, to Thailand? Or how do you look in it all?
Chokdee: I’m a strong believer in, creating my own, what, whatever it is.
There are, there will always things that you can control and you cannot control. I rather focus on what I can control and make the most out of it, because uncontrollable factor, whether there will be another, worldwide war, coming up, whether, gold price will go up or come down, stock will go up or come down, et cetera, et cetera.
Those are things that I, cannot control. I would rather focus on what I can and do some homework, make, make plan, and, study, the subject well. And then come up with the right strategy, right system, because structure and make sure whatever I believe, is the future, that I want to create and make sure that work and focus on what I can control.
I can control what time I can. I want to wake up. What time I want to wake up, what time I want to go to bed. I can control that. I can control how many hours, I want to make it productive in a day. I can control that. And I will focus on what I can control. And I think if you have done your study thoroughly, you would know what, what strategy you want to apply to your business? Is, is the business going up and falling down? I can control what I bring into my business. I can, I’m starting to change the packaging. I’m starting to change, what I offer to the, to the need of customer. The form, the size, the shape, the packaging that I can control.
So I’m focused on that one. There will be something that I cannot control economies before our, but I, control my, I have the strategy, I have the system and have the structure, which is tied and linked. I believe this is, what I can control and role focus on it.
Scott: Yeah. It sounds like we’re all playing a game.
We can’t control the game that we’re playing, but we can control how we play it.
Chokdee: Yes.
Scott: Right Now, you’ve been very generous with your time Khun Chokdee and I’m just curious, are there any topics that. You wish we had discussed, which we haven’t.
Chokdee: Oh, I can talk, all days, but, I appreciate, I appreciate, the opportunity, to be with you today, to share my thought to the audience.
Really appreciate that. I just wish that social status, different, places, different environment that we work with, at the end of the day, we have to coexist. I think Thailand, we can prosper together or even in the world level, we can, we there should theres enough room for all of us, right?
And yeah, let’s, try to work it out and, coexist,
Scott: that’s a good way to end it.
I just do want to know though, if you have any last pieces of advice, more on the business side of things, right? Because I think you’ve mentioned you’ve mentored a lot of people and you’ve seen people that make some mistakes. Is there any final recommendation you’d give to those, individuals that are maybe feel like they’re alone, maybe feel like they they’re struggling in some way.
What should they do?
Chokdee: Yeah. I would encourage, everyone, when you need help, just reach out. Help is all around. And, I think you under people easily underestimate the number of help that are available. But they are, believe me, they are, help or, available, right? And, for example, at AustCham, which I I, part of it, now is, we, are here to help and to promote and to support, the, members, activity of the members, next generation, et cetera, et cetera.
Help all or, don’t, hesitate to reach out and you never know. You get, some, a good idea, good advice through connecting to people, learning from each other. And together, we, we can create a synergy and then, one plus one will become a 3, 4, 5. Yeah. Don’t hesitate to reach out anytime.
Scott: Excellent. I really appreciate that. And I, I guess the last thing that I just wanna know from you is for individuals that wanna know more about, Candy Crush, where can they go? Where can they learn more?
Chokdee: You’re, very kind. Thank you. Is, candycrushthailand.com. Simple as that.
And, if, anyone like to reach out, to me personally, happy to, please feel free to do I’m available on LinkedIn, so just, my name, my last name, and, you can find me on link.
Scott: And you’re also very approachable at the Australian Thai Chamber events. I know. And I’m sure you go to a lot of other events as well, but you’re super approachable, so
Chokdee: Thank you.
Thank you. I appreciate, your kind words. But again, I don’t want to impose, in any way, but, if people, would like, to share some thoughts or share some idea, happy to, share my experience.
Scott: Yeah. You’ve been incredibly generous sharing your experience here, so thank you so much for your time Khun Chokdee I really appreciate it.
Chokdee: Pleasure is all mine. Thank you. Scott.
