[00:00:00] Jimmy: After a few years when I really started to ride motorcycles more in Thailand, I started to realize that this is the real reason why I want to continue living in Thailand.
[00:00:07] It’s a living community. Even though you don’t know the people coming by, you just talk to people and everyone is just sharing their passion.
[00:00:13] You can get jobs, you can get leads and you can get friends from riding motorcycles in Thailand.
[00:00:18] Scott: All right. Welcome, Jimmy. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.
[00:00:23] Jimmy: Thank you very much.
[00:00:25] Scott: Yeah, absolutely. So I’m super excited to, speak with you because I’ve gotten a lot of questions around starting a business around how to run a business in Thailand, and you’re someone who I think has a lot of experience in this area. But before we dive too deeply into that, I’d love to get a brief background from you and we’ll go from there.
[00:00:46] Jimmy: Alright, sure. pleasure being here. my name is Jimmy Bernberg. I am a, Swedish citizen and I’ve been working in Thailand since 2016. yeah. rough in nine years now. And, I’ve been, focusing basically on business development throughout my whole career. And, currently working as the senior sales manager at Iglu, and I basically help foreigners to get established for remote work here in Thailand.
[00:01:14] Scott: Excellent. So let’s hear a bit more about your story then. So were you always working for Iglu? Did Iglu import you into Thailand as like a expat package or did you have a different pathway here?
[00:01:26] Jimmy: Yeah, I had a different path. I was, studying and living in Sweden and then, when I was living there, I, had, I’ve been to Thailand on vacation a few times, and then I was applying for a job in Thailand from Sweden. And, I ended up, being one of the lucky guys who actually got the job.
[00:01:43] This was another company called DIAKRIT. It’s a international company with Swedish founders based here in Thailand. But they were, and they are quite big here in Thailand still. I think they have around four or 500 employees. And, I was working basically as a customer coordinator, like sales support role.
[00:02:01] And this was my first full-time job ever, even in Sweden. So I just moved here with some, minor experience as part-time jobs in, in my studies. And, then I was working for these, Swedish clients, in Bangkok. And, did I think four years in this company. And, then after that, COVID came, but just before COVID, I, I got another job in a, different company as an account manager.
[00:02:31] So I was basically, yeah, in January, 2020, I joined this company, which is like a prop tech company,So like we had all the setups for like good Slack channels. We had the video meetings scheduled, we had the project management systems, everything web-based. So wherever I were, we were able to, work remotely, which back then was like a unique perk.
[00:02:55] nobody did it. And I’m like, what can I really work on Friday from home? and I was able to do that And, We continued to do that, like on a hybrid level, mostly in the office.
[00:03:06] And when COVID came, basically everyone were working remotely, and that’s when I really loved living in Thailand. And that’s when I really felt like this is the reason why I wanted to live in Thailand to begin with. I ride motorcycle on the private side and I remember like Thailand was completely closed down, but there was, you could still drive like tour around the country with no limitation, more or less.
[00:03:29] Amazing time to be in Thailand. Almost no tourists. I remember take two paper one cocktails in the rooftop bars. It was the best place to be, I think. And, when I was working for this company, they were actually the ones who, the owner of this company that I was working for in this, time. It was basically a foreign company. And they basically hired me through one of their partners or basically the owner knew someone who, could hire me. And then he found Iglu. So I didn’t actually join Iglu myself. It was my boss at the time who said that, like the company I partnered up with Iglu and, we are considering to, to, employ you as an Iglu consultant to work for our business, with Iglu in Thailand. So that’s basically how everything started with Iglu. Long story short, or for the other way around.
[00:04:19] Scott: Some people come here and think that there aren’t any jobs in Thailand,
[00:04:22] or you can’t really work from Thailand, or you can’t start a business in Thailand, and there’s these. I think there’s a lot of negativity around what’s possible.
[00:04:31] People are always complaining about the visas, complaining about the, registration process. But I think you pointed out a few things, like it’s definitely possible. And I think another thing that you pointed out there is even from your first experience working in Thailand for an employer working remotely, right? It’s that you were not working as a an English teacher in Thailand.
[00:04:50] You, you were using your sales or business development skills or customer service skills. And I think, I’d like to get your opinion on this, but do you feel that’s maybe an underrepresented side of some of the individuals that you meet here in Thailand, that customer service sales, some of these other things exist and maybe not as many people know those opportunities exist?
[00:05:10] Jimmy: Yeah, I’m trying to preach for those roles as much as possible. that’s my background, more or less sales. And typically in the, like a few years ago, I even myself, thought that you’ve gotta be a developer to be able to work remotely or something like that. Or maybe an English teacher on site working for schools in Thailand.
[00:05:26] But there, nowadays there are so many different choices. Not only about what we said to get, but companies what role you are allowed to do. yeah.
[00:05:37] Scott: I think that we’ll always meet people in very interesting industries here. But to your point, it’s not just developers. It’s not just people teaching English for schools here in Thailand. There are plenty of us expats here.
[00:05:47] Jimmy: you have marketing people like SEO consultants. You have, like product managers or people working and building product for IT companies. business consultants. It’s quite broad. There are some restrictions though, but, still there’s a, whole, whole range of scopes you could do for work here.
[00:06:07] Scott: Whoa there. Hold up for just one second. I’m sorry to interrupt, but if you are struggling with business operations, cultural challenges, or growing your business in Thailand, you are not alone. This market is really tough to navigate. I know because I’ve been here since 2012 and I’ve experienced a lot of these challenges myself.
[00:06:26] That’s why I founded Fractiond, a Thailand-based consulting firm aimed at helping businesses succeed in Thailand. My Accenture experience from the US, and our community of top consultants from around the world, allow us to deliver top tier strategy and execution to businesses in Thailand. If you wanna learn more, you can book a free 15 minute discovery call to see how we can help your business.
[00:06:49] You can email us at [email protected]. Alright, back to the show.
[00:06:56] And I wanna make sure I fully understand your story here of this transition you made. So from my understanding, you’re working for an employer and. They are handling or working with another company of some sort to handle your work permits and making sure you’re able to legally work in Thailand.
[00:07:12] But then they came across Iglu, which is an outsourcing company, which is providing a solution to make that more seamless. Where you’re able to work here in Thailand more easily. And it sounds like that was a benefit to the company. So they were saying, we, we don’t have to do some of this stuff. We can just hire a company to help us with this. Is that kind of what happened?
[00:07:31] Jimmy: Yeah. Especially when you are working for companies who don’t have an entity in Thailand. So the company that I was working for was based out of Singapore, and then I was just like, they needed a really qualified sales professional who, could work for them. And I just happened to already be living in Thailand, so instead of relocating me to Singapore, they found a solution for me to be able to legally work here without establishing a company presence of their own here in Thailand. So there is a, there are a lot of flexible solutions to, to get it. Iglu is an outsourcing company, but we basically provide the talent. So Iglu decided to hire me to work on a project for their client, which was the company that I was actually working for.
[00:08:11] It goes both ways. Iglu, we do a lot of recruitment for our own roles when we’re trying to feel like, if we need a even if we need a new accountant or if we need, new HR person. We recruit a lot for ourselves, but we also have projects where we are looking for sales salespeople or, developers.
[00:08:28] But a lot of people, they, a lot of companies comes to us because the company clients are usually the one who really values the legal compliance part. So normal people who just want to be in Thailand, they might not care much about paying taxes at all anywhere. But the company clients are the one who actually takes legal compliance usually really seriously. So that’s why we only sell our services to companies, whether we providing talents for companies or, finding new talents for companies.
[00:08:56] Scott: It’s a really good point. I have definitely experienced this personally as well. When you’re just mentioning the compliance side of things.
[00:09:04] Because if you want to work, let’s say with a Thai company in Thailand or even a Singaporean based company, they’re going to be asking for things like tax IDs and things like this.
[00:09:14] So if you’re a consultant of sorts or someone who’s in it or some of these other fields, as soon as close a deal it’s not fully over because now all of a sudden you have to deal with, some of these other, things like, like again, invoicing and tax IDs and whatnot.
[00:09:29] And what you don’t wanna do is say, oh, here, my company’s not here and I’m not really able to legally work in Thailand because, there’s all this stuff where in order to work here for Thai companies especially, you need a work permit.
[00:09:41] And so there’s the not good way to do it. There’s the under the radar way to do it, which I certainly would not recommend. And then there’s the above board way to do it, which would be to have a work permit, pay taxes, and be legally employed here.
[00:09:57] Jimmy: Yeah. I’d say there are basically three different ways to be able to work in Thailand. If you are considering it, somewhat legal anyway. So you could join any, apply for any job for any company who are like A BOI company who can employ foreigners with a work permit and visa or who’s allowed to hire foreigners more or less.
[00:10:16] Or you can join an outsourcing company if you don’t, if you are clients, don’t have any entities here in the country. but there’s also people like, joining a friend’s company or setting up their own business in Thailand, or at least consider setting up a business in Thailand just to be able to get a visa and work permit.
[00:10:33] So it’s good that people take this thing seriously. and, legal compliance in Thailand, especially in, in, in the digital professional field, like people getting thrown out of Thailand for not working with a correct visa and stuff like this. So it is something to actually take seriously here.
[00:10:48] But, we have a lot of people that simply comes to us and, I’m thinking about setting up my own business here in Thailand. And they go and they start checking like, okay, I gotta register company. I gotta pay the government fees. I gonna do a BOI registration, I gonna, all the reporting, auditing, financial statement, account accounting services.
[00:11:11] All the reporting say, gonna hire, you’re gonna set up your own office to be able to all do all of this. You’re gonna have a director that you actually pay a salary. There’s all kinds of hidden fees that people don’t really consider. And then they realize that, okay, maybe it’s not so bad to go with the outsourcing model.
[00:11:29] Flexible, low, risk model, basically. And, if you’re setting up your own company, even though that could be cheaper, you’re gonna, you’re gonna make sure that you have a bunch of people who actually need, work permit to make it worth it. And also then you’re gonna consider also like, how long are you gonna, are you gonna commit to, to be operating 10 years at least in Thailand to make it worth it?
[00:11:49] Or if you are considering just working in Thailand for a year to see how you like, it makes no sense to, to invest in, in setting up your own BOI company.
[00:11:58] Scott: Now I want to take one quick step back just to make sure I can understand this flow of what happened with your career. So it sounds like you were working for this employer. They then hooked you up with Iglu. They were working on a project.
[00:12:12] And Iglu is now being hired to do a project, and you’re an employee of Iglu, right?
[00:12:17] But then now, if you fast forward a bit, you now have a role within Iglu where it’s you helping other companies get set up within Iglu. Is that right? explain a little bit more of how that transition happened and
[00:12:30] Jimmy: Yeah, exactly.
[00:12:31] Scott: is today.
[00:12:32] Jimmy: So I joined a consultant working for one of Iglus clients or working on a project, managed by Iglu for Iglus clients. And then Iglu was hiring for a sales manager a couple of years ago, and then I applied for that position. So I basically just switched project. So it’s no real difference of, internal, external like that.
[00:12:53] But now I am, I’m in the management team. And helping new clients do business in Thailand and providing talents for our clients. And then I’m also managing the, sales process within the team to try to get more leads and try to generate the business in general. So yeah, that was a quite an interesting transition, but I was still like, yeah, it’s totally different scope of work, but still working for the same company and, it was quite natural for me. Especially coming from a key account manage manager background.
[00:13:24] leading sales teams was something that I felt quite confident doing.
[00:13:28] Scott: Excellent. And that’s how you and I met. So full disclosure, I work with Iglu, because I have my own consultancy and just like you were mentioning this path that firms can go down where they say, do I wanna start my own company? in my case, I’m American. So I could have started a US Treaty of Amity company or could have, gone through the BOI process.
[00:13:48] And I’ve known some companies and, friends of mine that have gone through that process. So it seems like that’s good options and I don’t wanna dissuade people that are thinking long term and have a ton of employees, they still might wanna go down that path. However, the way I looked at it, having been here for over a decade. Despite having history here, having a family here and whatnot, the way I look at it is a little bit more of a a stepping stone that might actually be a longer stepping stone for me, but it’s run a consultancy and I, until it, until I have enough consultants and, have enough employees and maybe that’s 20 employees, whatever it didn’t really make sense for me to jump right to that step.
[00:14:29] So I look at Iglu as a very interesting step if you’re, if again, if you, depending on the size, depending on the duration, depending on your circumstances. But I see a lot of advantages and that’s obviously why I went down this path. And that’s how you and I met because we had several calls to talk about all these, So I think your, role is very interesting because you don’t seem to just be pitching Iglu and all the benefits of it. You’re giving a really balanced view. Of the benefits the tax implications, the things like this. I asked you a ton of questions before I decided to continue with Iglu.
[00:15:04] Jimmy: Yeah, I guess that you have a whole, if you compare the setting up your own company route versus, the outsourcing model, eI mean, the outsourcing model or Iglu model, honestly is not for everyone, but it’s for a lot of people. And the main thing is just that it’s flexible. You can just join and you can work with us for as long as you need to, without any real investments. But, also, we have a really ni, we have really nice offices. And, a lot of people, they consider setting up a business in Thailand and they compare like, okay, how much does it cost per employee to have an office in Thong Lo for example, okay, maybe then it’s gonna be 15,000 baht per person and we’re gonna be five people, and then you’re gonna have this, HR team to handle their visa applications and visa renewals, and 90 day reporting, all of that.
[00:15:51] For some people that’s everything. And for some people like, oh, I don’t need an office at all. I’m just gonna set up my own company. I can hire my wife and my cousin and, her two friends, and then I got two, four Thai people. But then they’re still gonna be on payroll and get money and, maybe they get it back.
[00:16:07] But I think that it’s, I’m trying to, as you say, keep it quite balanced and not only focus on the, like the Iglu model, but the outsourcing model versus the setting up your own business. Because it depends a little bit of your personal and ambition, but also like long-term plans. Some people, they’re just traveling around and wanna work from anywhere. And some people they are really focusing on Hey, I wanna have a proper business visa and a work permit. I’m gonna stay long term in Thailand. My plan is to get a permanent residency. I wanna become a citizen after that. And in that case, you’re gonna have the legit routes. and, then it’s not only Iglu who can help you, but any proper BOI company, any real employer in Thailand.
[00:16:49] Scott: Maybe we should touch on a couple of those. Points like BOI, right? Why is BOI important and why? ‘Cause you can start a just a Thai company, right?
[00:16:59] And you mentioned starting that and you can, a Thai company can employ a foreigner, right?
[00:17:04] But is there anything to do with the employee and the foreigner ratio to Thais that, BOI gives you something a little bit different or what is the benefit of BOI.
[00:17:15] Jimmy: The benefit of BOI is that you can, very, you can work indefinitely in Thailand, have a work permit and visa, and you can basically hire, I don’t wanna say unlimited, but you can hire a lot of foreign professionals to work for your company here in Thailand, without complications. Obviously, as I said before, there are some restrictions, some roles that we are not, foreigners are not really able to do at all, but, but there are some tax advantages for the companies who set up their BOI company.
[00:17:43] so, for us, if anyone joins an outsourcing company like Iglu. They would have a whole accounting team to assist with everything in terms of billing and, invoicing and, salary payments, payroll tax reporting filings.
[00:17:58] All of that is basically an all-inclusive service. And then also a full HR team who will assist you and remind you with your 90 day reporting or do them for you, and they make sure that, your visa is always up to date. Extend them when it’s needed. I’m not too sure about the exact differences or, the benefits compared to a normal company in Thailand versus BOI, but these are basically the, benefits.
[00:18:21] Scott: Yeah, my understanding of this is that. Not every industry is eligible to be under the B-O-I. BOI is Board of Investment. And the Board of investment Office. It’s a different immigration office. So when you’re dealing with things like work permits and whatnot, you’re not going to Chaengwattana. You’re going
[00:18:37] to a different office, which is inside of a mall basically, and you’re getting this VIP treatment.
[00:18:41] But really it’s about investing in Thailand. So the Board of Investment wants companies. Who are investing in Thailand e employing Thais providing value. And that’s why I think a lot of the industries that are eligible for BOI tend to be technology focused companies or things like this that are again, bringing value to Thailand.
[00:19:01] And so I really love BOI. But the thing to note is that, again, not everyone can start a BOI company. You do have things like capital expenditure and all these other the documentation you have to provide to demonstrate that you’re providing that value to Thailand to be able to start a BOI company.
[00:19:19] And so there are just some extra things that people need to be aware of there. But the main thing is that you mentioned being able to employ more foreigners is that a Thai company I believe has to typically have the four to one ratios of Thai to foreigners. Whereas my understanding is that the BOI companies can employ foreigners a little bit easier because they don’t have to adhere to the same ratios.
[00:19:41] Jimmy: they all, they will always, they could ask Hey, why would you hire a foreigner for this role? So it always gonna make sense. So for an example. My first job in Thailand before Iglu and everything, when I came here, when I did this sales support, like customer coordinator role all my customers were Swedish, and it’s a sales job where I’m speaking Swedish. So even in my job description and in my visa, it’s I’m, working for a Swedish client and that’s the main reason with my application to approve this, is because we need some Swedish speaking guy based here in Thailand to coordinate with the Swedish clients. There’s no question that a Thai person can do this job, so then it’s quite easy.
[00:20:21] So when you are writing job descriptions to apply for new job titles with, in the BOI, we still make sure that it makes sense before we proceed and so that everyone we hire actually has qualifications for it. Which are quite low anyway, if, most of the people that we hire are generally speaking quite senior, but the minimum requirements for a business visa and work permit is only like with a bachelor degree and two years work experience.
[00:20:49] So even I managed to qualify when I was 23 years old and get a work permit with only part-time jobs. So it’s not really tough to get it. It’s quite easy. And there is no quote that to consider as you say.
[00:21:01] Scott: No, but it’s always good to be thinking from the perspective of the government, what are they trying to do? And as I said, I have nothing but good things to say about the BOI Office Board of Investment offices. That they they really do wanna provide value and they’re not really seemingly trying to restrict foreigners a lot, but they wanna make sure that you’re at least making that case.
[00:21:18] Maybe it’s your degree, but you need to at least prove that you’re providing value. and it’s a role that a foreigner should be employed.
[00:21:26] Jimmy: Yeah. I, feel, like they’re quite sympathetic and, quite easy to deal with. I’m always in and out there very quickly when I do my renewals. I always say to new people joining that is more or less take a photo once a year in the BOI office, and, then more or less extended, but per default.
[00:21:41] Obviously it’s a lot more work in it, done by the HR teams, but, yeah. I feel like as long as they’re hiring people who actually want to work legally in Thailand and pay taxes in Thailand who are qualified, there’s no real no, no real reason for them to make things hard for us.
[00:21:59] Scott: Absolutely. And that ties into another interesting topic, which is visas, right? So we’re talking about you need a work permit, to be working in Thailand legally, right? And you need a visa. Now there are some newer visas now, like the destination Thailand visa, and my understanding is how that’s working right now is that it, you could run a small operation from Thailand where you are working with clients outside of Thailand, under the destination Thailand visa.
[00:22:27] So I know some people that are doing this where they might be serving the Southeast Asian region, but not specifically Thailand, and they don’t have any clients in Thailand and they can work from Thailand and run their small operation that way, or their SaaS, business or whatever. However. destination Thailand Visa is, still effectively a tourist, like a long-term tourist visa to a certain extent. It’s not a pathway to any other type of visa. It’s not a pathway to citizenship. It’s not a pathway to permanent residency. You’re essentially not paying taxes in Thailand in hopes of demonstrating the value you’re providing to Thailand. Whereas when you’re employed in Thailand and have a visa and a work permit here and are paying those taxes then from my understanding is that you can then go down some of these other routes, whether it be a long-term resident visa or whether it be permanent residence. Is that correct?
[00:23:17] Jimmy: Yeah, so Iglu, I think we have 10 or possibly 11 people on the highly skilled professional LTR Visa, which has some other tax benefits as well. But it’s only for some highly qualified professionals who have a high income, more or less. and then they have this. Smart visa, which seems to not be, it’s gonna be discontinued because I don’t think they even issue it anymore in the BOI.
[00:23:41] And then you have the non b business visa with the work permits. So these are basically the three options. if you’re talking about employment visas. And as you say, the DTV Visa is not an employment visa at all. It’s also a problem because you cannot have a work permit on the DTV Visa because it’s not allowed to work for title.
[00:24:00] You’re not allowed to work for Thai companies. So then you have this problem with the financial side as well. you might be able to open a bank account in some shop, but you’re not supposed to. And most of the banks simply don’t allow you to open a bank account without a work permit. Some people might have a work, bank account since before and they might not close that down, but there is all kinds of complications. It’s a lot of limitations. So there is no real benefit to the DTV Visa apart from being able to be in Thailand and do your, bill your clients abroad and have, pay your taxes in other countries and stuff like that. So many people still come to Thailand to be employed in Thailand, have your income in Thailand, because even though things are not as cheap as it used to be. It’s not cheap in Europe either anymore. And the tax rates in Thailand are considerably lower than in Europe for an example. although it’s not super, low taxes here, it’s still much lower than, in Sweden for an example.
[00:25:00] Scott: Yeah, it’s a good point. And I think a lot of people know here in Thailand that you can make it as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be. So you can get by on very little here. But you would be living a very simple life, right? And so you can live a very simple life, live like a local, Thai or lower income Thai. And, you can, again, I think live still good, enjoy yourself. But I do feel like when you start having a, you grow a family and o other things and you want to have foreign food and all this other stuff, it does get a bit more expensive. But to your point, it’s all relative. Jimmy?
[00:25:34] Jimmy: You change what you do, right? So for me, I really love Thailand and living in Thailand, not only having good food, exploring the country, driving around, going up the mountains, going, riding motorcycles somewhere,
[00:25:46] also, like to other countries like Korea and other countries around Thailand.
[00:25:50] Scott: Yeah, let’s touch on that because one thing that you had mentioned to me in a prior conversation, Jimmy, was that number one you like motorcycle riding and racing. I, and then number two, that there is a great race track, in Thailand, which I was completely unfamiliar with. I’ve heard of the the tracks for cars, but I didn’t know there was some great motorcycle racing.
[00:26:11] So maybe you could share where that is in which you recommend there. And the third thing I’d love for you to touch on is you’re the networking sort of opportunity and the other expats and whatnot that you meet because you being in sales, it’s very interesting that you’re able to meet some very interesting people where that might turn into business later on.
[00:26:32] That might just turn into friendships, but that’s another side of it that I think people might not be aware of. So could you touch on some of those things for us?
[00:26:39] Jimmy: Yeah. So yeah, as motorcycle is a huge part of my life and, I think I, maybe this wasn’t the, real purpose from the beginning, but after a few years when I really started to ride motorcycles more in Thailand, I started to realize that this is the real reason why I want to continue living in Thailand.
[00:26:57] ‘ cause I can ride motorcycles not only like cruise around and touring. But also racing. So for an example, in Buri Ram, which is like Isaan, mid country, they have a big football team as well. but next to the football stadium there is a huge motorcycle track and this is a motor GP track. once a year, there’s motor GP being racing.
[00:27:17] They have huge, like people in the whole city, these fully booked hotels everywhere. It’s a real, real fest. Like it’s a huge event. really fun to go to. Although I never been to that specific Moto GP event yet. But on that track, so a moto GP track, that’s where I go racing usually in Buri Ram and I go mostly with, Honda.
[00:27:38] They organize really good events, Honda, Thailand, so that if you buy a big bike in Thailand from Honda, they can provide you with access to these events, track days. And also Honda, the championship competitions, usually every third month or something, they have a real event. and there is a huge expat community racing motorcycles in the same group.
[00:27:58] So we have, like Americans, we have British people, we have French people, we have Italians, Belgians, like all the, all the random nationalities with different backgrounds. And a lot of these people are actually made, like quite close friends now, we have the same hobby meet them up both in Bangkok.
[00:28:16] People live like down on the islands or. Anywhere, literally. And, everyone just transports their bike and go racing and, enjoy. And this, most of them are quite senior executives. A lot of them have their own businesses. And some of them even sends me leads like, hey Jimmy, this is, one of my friends.
[00:28:35] He’s also, living in Thailand. He has a business, blah, blah, blah. do you think you can help him? and then, yeah, I get leads this way too. So quite interesting. But also like riding motorcycles. Apart from being on the track and racing. If I’m cruising around on the street, let’s say on the mountains in Chiang Mai or my hometown, then stopping by in a cafe in a really nice scenic route, and then you’re just sitting there having a coffee by the side of the road and really enjoying your life already, but then you got five other bikes, parking outside, and everyone is just so nice.
[00:29:09] This, it’s a living community. Even though you don’t know the people coming by, you just talk to people and everyone is just sharing their passion. oh, what is this bike? What? What kind of exhaust is this? Ah, yeah. Did an ECU flash on it as well. And you’re sitting there and talking about like nerdy motorcycle things.
[00:29:25] And for me, I can talk quite a lot about motorcycles. This is how I got a hold of, my current manager who is the deputy CEO of Iglu right now. So I went to a few Facebook, there was a Facebook group called Expat Bikers, and we went to, on a day trip, meet in this gas station at six o’clock in the morning and we go to, we have lunch there and then we go back to Bangkok.
[00:29:51] yeah, you can get jobs, you can get leads and you can get friends from riding motorcycles in Thailand.
[00:29:57] Scott: No, that’s amazing. Now, how many motorcycles do you have then?
[00:30:01] Jimmy: I got four, which is plenty enough for me at the moment. So it’s, some people call me a little crazy and especially my soon to be wife. But yeah, I got one dedicated race machine only for the track and then I got another big bike for the streets. And then I got, two scooters, so 1 3 50 A DV and one little ano seven 11 bike.
[00:30:22] So yeah, as I said, biking is a part of my life. Definitely.
[00:30:26] Scott: The reason I really liked you explaining all that is because. Number one, it plays to the point that everyone can find their community here in Thailand, right? If you are really big into car racing, if you’re really big into motorcycles, really big into rock climbing, right? We have a mutual friend who’s really big into that, there’s just these different places and you, I think too often people give up on Thailand because they live in, on one soi and they don’t like that they’re getting ripped off or whatever. ’cause they haven’t learned any Thai or anything like this. And
[00:30:57] it’s no, you have to realize that there are all these different communities out there and there are opportunities.
[00:31:02] And the, other reason I think this is really important, Jimmy, is because. I, attend a decent number of networking events and I sometimes meet these people and they just want to give out their business cards, right? And I, that’s a pet peeve of mine. I really dislike that. ’cause to me
[00:31:16] it’s all about making actual connections, not like LinkedIn connections.
[00:31:20] Make actual connections, right? And that means that you might actually wanna hang out with the person. You might actually like the person you might wanna actually know about their business, right? You might wanna know what they’re doing. And so that’s where, when you find your community. Then it’s not that you’re finding the community in hopes of getting business.
[00:31:35] It’s a little bit more of it’s a side effect, isn’t it?
[00:31:37] Jimmy: yeah, definitely. when I go to these, track days in Buri Ram, everyone is walking around with a big fat smile on their face and everyone is talking and saying hi to each other, everyone. Everyone knows. you have people that love the same thing hanging out together basically.
[00:31:53] So of course you’re gonna have fun. And I think that’s what makes it like you don’t go there to sell. And this is really not the case. But at some point in the evening after the you, you’re in a swimming pool with five or 10, friends. having some beers, after a full day on the track, and they’re like, Hey, Jimmy, what do you do for a living?
[00:32:11] By the way, I had no idea what you do. How long you have you been in Thailand? Oh, I do this and that. Okay, actually, I, might actually be interested in some, assistance further down the road. So it becomes much more natural. This, this relationships. You get to know the persons first and you get to, to, you actually like them. And then if you like someone, you also wanna do business with ’em.
[00:32:34] Scott: Absolutely. now you’ve mentioned that you’ve been here for several years. Are there any other things that you like about Thailand, or maybe this ties into, are there any reasons that companies tend to want to do business in Thailand that make this a good regional hub?
[00:32:50] Jimmy: Yeah, so there are, for me personally, I think that is, the motorcycle community also, to be able to have the weather where you can ride motorcycle basically all year round with different bikes. But for companies, first of all, you can get access to really senior skilled talents because remote work in general, or working in Thailand, it attracts quite a lot of senior, or le, let’s say, highly skilled people.
[00:33:14] But also there’s huge like infrastructure for remote work here, full of really luxurious and nice coworking spaces. You can rent offices very cheaply. You have the good time zones, so you can work with the European time zones while based in Thailand, but also tap into like other time zones, not too far away from Dubai, not too far away from some parts of the US at least.
[00:33:38] you can work with multiple time zones quite efficient from here. And, then of course you have the cost of living, which is the main thing. And, yeah, weather and quality of life in general, because most of the people I know that you spoke about, the trap of getting a low paid job only because you are in Thailand.
[00:33:55] But, most of the people that I deal with are more senior professionals or entrepreneurs who, wants to continue working for their projects that are paying a lot of money, but then somehow get a high income. While living in a low cost country. And that’s the dream, right?
[00:34:12] Scott: Yeah, and I, again, I wanna reinforce that it’s entirely possible.
[00:34:16] Jimmy: Yeah, for me, that’s what changed with Iglu, that I realized that wow, some people make a lot of money here even. Yeah.
[00:34:23] Scott: It is true, there’s quite a wealth gap here, and I think
[00:34:25] I’ve seen plenty of people caught on the hamster wheel where they’re basically anchored to local Thai salaries. But it all comes down to what skillset you have.
[00:34:33] And there absolutely are people that are much higher paid than I am living here and living a very good a life where it’s very high income and very low cost of living. And it’s possible. But if you just are looking to just land here in Thailand and get a well-paying job with all these great benefits, I think that’s less likely.
[00:34:50] And, that sort of ties us to something else Jimmy, I wanted to ask you about is workforce trends. Over the years that you’ve been here or that you’ve been in this sort of industry, have you seen any trends in the types of people that are able to more easily get a job or the trends of people that are more remotely working from Thailand?
[00:35:08] Anything that you can share that you’re seeing in how companies are structuring differently than they did in the past or anything like that?
[00:35:15] Jimmy: I think some company they use Thailand or remote in general as a business or company perk, right? They’re trying to make it really sexy to work in this specific company only because you are able to work remotely or to be based in Thailand. So that’s one thing. and I think also a lot of companies, they there are more senior talents working in Thailand than junior ones. But, just a few years ago we only had this TESOL license with A BOI. So just a few years ago, Iglu was only able to hire IT professionals, more or less, or people working in any IT related role. But, then we saw a shift that we had a lot more projects requesting, customer services or like a these kind of more like business process outsourcing roles. So then we actually expanded the scope of our BOI license. So we got this IBPO license as well, enabling us to hire people in sales roles and, more simple customer service roles for clients outside Thailand. And, now we are expanding a lot. there is, there are more and more people, joining us with these, let’s say normal roles, not only the entrepreneurs and not only the the, senior IT experts. So I think that, customer service jobs for tech companies or like sales job, like tech sales jobs is getting more and more in Thailand maybe not only in Thailand, probably everywhere, but these are roles that are quite easy now to do remotely.
[00:36:41] Scott: And just to play on the more senior roles that are operating here. To your point, they could just be someone, like it’s a people manager of some sort.
[00:36:48] It could be entrepreneurs that have their own companies and whatnot. But I’m just curious if you’re also seeing that. Some of these highly skilled professionals are more often going independent or more often doing these things where they’re looking for more flexibility to maybe work with multiple clients.
[00:37:03] Things like this, because I, know there’s the more traditional go through the corporate ladder, become part of the C-suite and then stay at that job.
[00:37:12] But from what I’m seeing is like not as many people are sticking around a company for 20 years and getting, collecting their pension.
[00:37:17] I’m seeing honestly, a lot of the. The really talented people not jump ship, but just change the work style or the way that they’re working.
[00:37:26] Jimmy: Yeah, that, and also a lot of, let’s say, overqualified people doing more simple jobs only because they’re able to be in Thailand, right? So that if you are quite professional, I think that you get higher quality candidates applying for a job that is based in Thailand when they’re just looking for a fluent English speaker.
[00:37:43] Let’s say you’re gonna do a customer support job for a CRM system, like a Salesforce or HubSpot or whatever. Everything you’re gonna do is to be available for meetings online and then be on available on email and chat. So as long as you can do that. Usually people just want to have all this convenience of, employment by a company in Thailand who can provide you with a work permit, a visa pay your social security, provide all that you need to be able to work legally in Thailand.
[00:38:09] And then you get a lot of like overqualified people who can accept a lower salary than they maybe could in their home country, only because they get to do the job from here. So I would say it’s a lot more competition for the roles and, I think this is probably the main reason why we hire a lot of senior professionals.
[00:38:28] Also, companies benefit from lower, as you say, maybe not, most people don’t stay 20 years, but Iglu have a few people stayed 10 years now. we did, and many, at least for five years. you have, lower, you increase staff retention and, the employees are probably a little bit happier being able to do their job in Thailand than anywhere else.
[00:38:54] Scott: Speaking of staff retention, I’m just imagining in a case that there is a company with five or 10 employees, let’s say that would be working from Thailand. Okay. Now, in that case, you are now trying to make sure that those people stay happy. And planning events, like doing all the stuff, whether it be taxes, it seems like there’s the clerical side of it, but then you touched on the other side, which is the happiness side of it.
[00:39:18] So I’m curious if you could touch on anything that Iglu does to help, individuals that are pursuing Iglu as an outsource provider. And is there anything that you do to keep employees happy or to keep people engaging with one another?
[00:39:31] Jimmy: We have a quite vibrant community. so we are over 200 foreigners, I believe at the moment. Almost 40 different nationalities. So it’s very multinational. everyone is quite qualified and, quite senior I’d say. We of course, have, normal roles as well, but it’s quite interesting. So once a month we have one event in all our offices, maybe beer and pizza in the office or something like this. And, almost everyone works remotely with Iglu, but these. Office days makes people want to come in to meet their p meet their colleagues and have a pizza, and have a couple of beers after work.
[00:40:07] and also once a year we have a completely free, outing trip. So we have been to Pai with the whole company. We have been in Pattaya, with the whole company. So basically we rent out the whole resort and we invite everyone, including their families to join us for a get together once a year. Provide a really nice, we have a buffet dinner for everyone, paid for by Iglu. We have the hotel room paid for everyone. And, just get together over a long weekend to just hang out and get to know each other and, have some activities. Last year we rented a yacht boat in Pattaya, had a party on that, and then everyone is having dinner in the evening and just having a good time and getting to know each other.
[00:40:46] And this makes it really nice when you come to the office after these outings that’s. People really get to know each other because of It sparks a lot of conversations like, oh yeah, how are you? And they’re like, where did you go after that? Like you can see people get to know each other because of it.
[00:41:01] And that’s quite nice. Even for myself, I came in relatively new in the, into Iglu when I became the sales manager. So naturally I wanted to get no, as the sales manager, when I’m in charge of basically hiring people. I wanna make sure that I have a good connection with not only the legal team, but also the HR and accounting teams and all the internal colleagues, So that helped a lot. And yeah, even on my first months, I was talking to some like Iglu accountants and I’m, sitting and talking to her and she is after a while she like, who are you? I’m like, Hey, it’s me, Jimmy. I worked here for two months. Hello. It’s you. So it’s good to have this get togethers sometimes.
[00:41:38] Scott: Yeah, I think we all crave that a little bit. I think like I, like you was working remotely long before COVID and I loved it and I enjoyed it and it was a very smooth transition for me ’cause I was already doing everything online. But you fast forward a few years after everyone was forced to be only online, and then a few years more.
[00:41:57] And then you start to say, huh, okay, I kind of wish.
[00:42:00] I could shake hands with people meet in, meat space, more frequently. And so doing the occasional like monthly lunch or annual event, I think goes a really long way. Because not only that, to your point with your colleagues and people, in the accounting department, whatever else, it’s like, it’s really good for people to see that you’re human, right?
[00:42:20] Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. And another perk that we have that is. It’s, it is these small things that doesn’t necessarily cost a lot of money for the company, but that is quite appreciated. So Iglu actually has free Thai lessons for all employees.
[00:42:35] Jimmy: So obviously we have IT scan, we have it, online with a Zoom call. So obviously it’s up to, depending on what time slot works for you with your work and your projects and everything. But, for me it’s there is no reason for me to not join a free type class at work, like in working hours scheduled in my Google calendar.
[00:42:56] So now, almost two years after I can read and write Thai. But I learned more since I joined Iglu two years ago, than I, Then I did the remain and the other seven years combined. So now I’m out driving my car and driving around and actually can speak to people in Thai and read and oh no, this does, this means next week.
[00:43:16] Nothing. it’s, quite nice to be able to read. And I can see oh, here says max occupancy, 20 people on the pier. oh, I understood that. It’s nice. So this helps me, with my path towards PR.
[00:43:30] Scott: Absolutely. And that, again, I know I touched on that briefly, but when you’re working for a company paying taxes and whatnot, then you can go in that pathway towards permanent residency. And as you pointed out, you do then need to speak some Thai. I just went through that process. I’ll speak about that more in the channel down the road. But basically you definitely have to have some language ability to be able to go in front and make your case. As to why you need pr. And so that, yeah, that Thai language classes sound like a great way to set you on the right track.
[00:44:00] Now, Jimmy, is there anything that you wish I would’ve asked you about that we didn’t discuss yet?
[00:44:05] Jimmy: Not really. Not really. we’ve been focusing a lot about work and, the business side of everything. I think that’s. In general, people who are interested to come to Thailand and live here long term. I think that there are so many ways of doing it. And if you, the main thing is just to have work, whether you, if you have a client willing to pay for your services, then it’s possible.
[00:44:28] If you have an employer who wanna pay you money to do some work that’s a main thing. Which Visa you get, or which company joins. That’s the second questions. But if you have some kind of connection, you can just come to Thailand. Also there are, full of business events like, all kinds of, like the, for me, Swedish, Thai Chamber of Commerce, the Finnish Thai Chamber of Commerce, the Norwegian Thai Chamber of Commerce, the British Thai Chamber of Commerce Singapore.
[00:44:52] there’s basically every country have one, and they have events all the time. They have, it’s full of like international business leaders. So if you’re really trying to get new clients or projects or just, find new employees for your own business, there is a huge international community in Thailand especially. Especially Bangkok.
[00:45:14] Scott: That’s a great point. And what I will say too is it’s relatively close knit in this sense that you definitely are gonna know someone who knows someone, right?
[00:45:21] So you certainly don’t wanna burn your bridges here. It’s amazing how, again. And Jimmy, you and I were just talking and we’re like, oh, Nick, I know Nick.
[00:45:27] it is this sort of thing. it’s always just one step removed here.
[00:45:31] you’re gonna know someone who knows someone. And so.
[00:45:34] Jimmy: It’s a big country, but there i it is like a little pot in the middle where all the foreigners are mixed into. So like Bangkok is big. It’s a lot of people. But then again, it’s only a small part of, Bangkok where literally everyone is in, I feel like.
[00:45:49] Scott: Absolutely. Now I want to make a handoff to, if people want to get in touch with you, Jimmy, what is the best way to get in touch to either learn, let’s say that they are they. Or, one of a few different categories, right? If they’re a case where they’re an employer and they’re thinking about, they have some people asking them about working from Thailand or working in thailand, or they already have some, a regional office, but they’re thinking about maybe expanding into Thailand, so they’re the business side, or if they’re on more the kind of consulting, like they have a small practice or something like that, and they’re just trying to make sure that they can go down the right path for that. How should they reach out to you?
[00:46:25] Jimmy: I think the easiest way is just to go into Iglu.net/contact, and that’s spelled Iglu.net/contact. and then send me, send us a message from there. we usually reply within 24 7. it’s 24 hours. sorry. or you can send me an email if you just have some general questions, which is, Jimmy, [email protected] and, that’s probably the, best way to get ahold of us.
[00:46:53] We also have some open jobs on Iglu.net/jobs.
[00:46:57] Scott: Excellent, Jimmy. And I’ll also add another option is that if someone wants to hear from me about my experience using Iglu, then you can certainly ask or give my unbiased opinion on what it’s all been like, the goods, the bads, everything. I’ll speak bad about Jimmy behind his back a little bit if I have to. Now, but definitely you can reach out to me as well. I’ll put my, email in the description as well. But with that, I just wanna thank you, Jimmy for spending the time with us today.
[00:47:25] Jimmy: Yeah. Thanks. Good to be here.
[00:47:27] Scott: Alright. I’ll catch you on the next one and talk to you soon, Jimmy. Bye.
[00:47:31] Jimmy: Alright, thanks.
